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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2015 10:19 pm 
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rain wrote:
gb wrote:
I’m comfortable with exploration of a possible link between RLC and OI, but I’d prefer to see this historically based, if that’s possible.
Then open up a thread and debate it.


Obviously, I failed to make myself clear. What I meant to say was:
gb wrote:
I’m comfortable with exploration of a possible link between RLC and OI, but I’d prefer to see this historically based, if that’s possible.

And if you point me to the historical (that is, documentary) evidence, I’ll be more than happy to debate it. A sure pointer to a shipment to the Americas with its origin at RLC would be a good start.

In my books, I ruled out RLC as a source of the OI mystery because analysis seemed to have gone crazy, shooting way off into the world of deceit and make-believe. However, if it’s possible to demonstrate through the historical record that a Rennes-le-Château treasure actually existed, and that it was shipped out of France, I’m quite happy to consider it might have gone to Oak Island. That is to say:
gb wrote:
I’m comfortable with exploration of a possible link between RLC and OI, but I’d prefer to see this historically based, if that’s possible.

If it’s not possible, is there historical (documentary) evidence to hint at the association? It’s been suggested that a documentary hint linking a French treasure and OI might exist through the Templars, but what documentary evidence is there that links a Templar treasure directly to RLC? So, hopefully to make my position clear:
gb wrote:
I’m comfortable with exploration of a possible link between RLC and OI, but I’d prefer to see this historically based, if that’s possible.

I hope that clarifies the apparent misunderstanding. I’m intrigued by the Shakespeare controversy, I’m intrigued by Oak Island, and I’m intrigued by RLC. These are mysteries because they arise from people’s interpretation of natural / artifactual / textual data; they do not appear in the historical record. All we have is hypothesis, but it would be good to see the associations at least hinted at in the historical (documentary) record. So, what I intended to convey was:
gb wrote:
I’m comfortable with exploration of a possible link between RLC and OI, but I’d prefer to see this historically based, if that’s possible.

In the context of the above quote, and of the thread, I don’t see how the Shakespeare controversy links RLC to OI from the point of view of documented history, particularly through the unresolved Baconian debate.
rain wrote:
BTW which Bacon are you referring to?

By Bacon I mean the Bacon associated with the long-standing (two centuries old) Baconian controversy concerning the works of Shakespeare, that is to say, the Bacon that Petter Amundsen (the subject of this thread) associates with Oak Island. As I understand the copious literature on the subject - plus Amundsen’s TV series referenced at the beginning of the thread - this is not Roger Bacon, Brian Bacon, or even Hang-Hog Bacon. It’s Francis Bacon, but I assume you may have suspected that all along.

I could be wrong, of course, and I’d be interested to know which Bacon you associate with the debate on whether the works of Shakespeare were authored by Bacon. I’m aware of only one such Bacon in Amundsen's context, but it’s interesting that you seem to be suggesting there might be another, and I admit that adding more Bacon to the Shakespeare mix would produce a confusing and potentially over-spiced ingredient to an already over-filled pot!


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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2015 10:50 pm 
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rain wrote:
gb wrote:

and would prefer to see Bacon is Shakespeare debated and concluded solely in its own right, and in its current compartment.



Then open up a thread and debate it. BTW which Bacon are you referring to?


I was really only interested in this part of the sentence where you expose your preference for debating Shakespeare on it's own terms.


Quote:
In the context of the above quote, and of the thread, I don’t see how the Shakespeare controversy links RLC to OI from the point of view of documented history, particularly through the unresolved Baconian debate.


As far as I'm concerned it doesn't in a material sense, it's just used to wrangle whatever policy is up for grabs on that side of the Atlantic at any given moment.


Quote:
And if you point me to the historical (that is, documentary) evidence, I’ll be more than happy to debate it.


If you have a preference for debating it on it's own merits I would have thought you had some prior information on the Sir Francis Bacon debate to bring to the table?

gb wrote:
By Bacon I mean the Bacon associated with the long-standing (two centuries old) Baconian controversy concerning the works of Shakespeare, that is to say, the Bacon that Petter Amundsen (the subject of this thread) associates with Oak Island. As I understand the copious literature on the subject - plus Amundsen’s TV series referenced at the beginning of the thread - this is not Roger Bacon, Brian Bacon, or even Hang-Hog Bacon. It’s Francis Bacon, but I assume you may have suspected that all along.I could be wrong, of course, and I’d be interested to know which Bacon you associate with the debate on whether the works of Shakespeare were authored by Bacon. I’m aware of only one such Bacon, but it’s interesting that you seem to be suggesting there might be another, and I admit that adding more Bacon to the Shakespeare mix would produce a confusing and potentially over-spiced ingredient to an already over-filled pot!


There is also Sir Francis Bacon's brother who spent time in France. I think he's mentioned on occasion.

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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2015 5:26 pm 
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Shakespeare - the Hidden Truth is available as VOD in some countries.
Links to the free Sweet Swan of Avon on Vimeo:

EP1: https://vimeo.com/94648237
EP2: https://vimeo.com/94648236
EP3: https://vimeo.com/94648239
EP4: https://vimeo.com/94648238

The trailer:
https://vimeo.com/106370039

Regards, P.A.


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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2015 5:28 pm 
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This is the VOD link:
https://vimeo.com/ondemand/shakespeare/67949013


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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2015 6:29 pm 
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Boteswaine wrote:


Hello Boteswaine and thank you so much for the great link

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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2015 8:52 pm 
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Boatswaine, you are Petter Amundsen, correct?

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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2015 7:10 am 
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Correct.


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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2015 10:22 am 
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Boteswaine wrote:
Shakespeare - the Hidden Truth is available as VOD in some countries.
Links to the free Sweet Swan of Avon on Vimeo:

EP1: https://vimeo.com/94648237
EP2: https://vimeo.com/94648236
EP3: https://vimeo.com/94648239
EP4: https://vimeo.com/94648238

The trailer:
https://vimeo.com/106370039

Regards, P.A.


Wow, I have just watched the first episode and I must say it's very compelling. It certainly challenges everything I thought I knew about William Shakespeare, I look forward to watching the others later today if time permits.....thanks for posting the links.

just as an aside.... I have been studying the 17th century glassmakers and their families, particularly in the Aude region but as the subject deeply entwines within my local area (Newcastle) I came across an interesting reference to Sir Robert Mansell who was married to Elizabeth Bacon, Francis Bacons sister. The glassmakers secrets were paramount to their success and the reason they were so highly sought after, a quick glance at the Murano glassmakers would give you an insight into the use of secret codes and such like and I often wonder if the Voynich manuscript could be a glassmaker manual :mrgreen:

Before 1616, Sir Robert Mansell bought out the patent and company started by Zouche. He began many ventures and set up a successful glasshouse near a coal source in the attempts to save money and to more easily meet the demands of London. His crystallo furnace at Broad Street, London, had fared successfully. Some of his earlier attempts to set up new a furnace to produce glass for the growing needs of London failed, as transportation costs proved to be too high. Yet the furnace Mansell set up at Newcastle was successful.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mansell


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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2015 4:52 pm 
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tingra wrote:
Boteswaine wrote:
Shakespeare - the Hidden Truth is available as VOD in some countries.
Links to the free Sweet Swan of Avon on Vimeo:

EP1: https://vimeo.com/94648237
EP2: https://vimeo.com/94648236
EP3: https://vimeo.com/94648239
EP4: https://vimeo.com/94648238

The trailer:
https://vimeo.com/106370039

Regards, P.A.


Wow, I have just watched the first episode and I must say it's very compelling. It certainly challenges everything I thought I knew about William Shakespeare, I look forward to watching the others later today if time permits.....thanks for posting the links.

just as an aside.... I have been studying the 17th century glassmakers and their families, particularly in the Aude region but as the subject deeply entwines within my local area (Newcastle) I came across an interesting reference to Sir Robert Mansell who was married to Elizabeth Bacon, Francis Bacons sister. The glassmakers secrets were paramount to their success and the reason they were so highly sought after, a quick glance at the Murano glassmakers would give you an insight into the use of secret codes and such like and I often wonder if the Voynich manuscript could be a glassmaker manual :mrgreen:

Before 1616, Sir Robert Mansell bought out the patent and company started by Zouche. He began many ventures and set up a successful glasshouse near a coal source in the attempts to save money and to more easily meet the demands of London. His crystallo furnace at Broad Street, London, had fared successfully. Some of his earlier attempts to set up new a furnace to produce glass for the growing needs of London failed, as transportation costs proved to be too high. Yet the furnace Mansell set up at Newcastle was successful.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mansell


Isn't it fascinating Tingra
Their secrets and deep philosophical symbolism can we call it "alchemy" would bring the spectrum of light into sacred space
Their reputations made them sought after and their commissions gave them "carte blanche"

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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2015 12:23 am 
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Caelum wrote:
Boatswaine, you are Petter Amundsen, correct?



Great call Caelum!

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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2015 3:37 am 
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Botswaine
Did you see this discovery in a France Library?
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2014 ... ch-library

lay undisturbed in library at St-Omer for 200 years
I really find the whole mystery of Bacon and Shakespeare very fascinating
St Omer had a Jesuit Library and it was there until the revolution and then made into a Library
I find it fascinating that the Jesuits had Shakespeare's Folio

I would have thought it ban from the Church

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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2015 7:56 am 
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Oh, yes. What a wonderful discovery! It coincides with our sales attempt to FranceTV for our new series called The Seven Steps TO Mercy.


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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2015 5:03 pm 
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Boteswaine wrote:
Oh, yes. What a wonderful discovery! It coincides with our sales attempt to FranceTV for our new series called The Seven Steps TO Mercy.



Oh I picked up the TO (two) :lol: :lol: :lol:

any ideas why the Jesuits were interested in it? and the picture of Shakespeare was torn out of it
Thomas Jefferson, the third President of the United States and author of the Declaration of Independence, wrote: "Bacon, Locke and Newton. I consider them as the three greatest men that have ever lived, without any exception, and as having laid the foundation of those superstructures which have been raised in the Physical and Moral sciences". William Hepworth Dixon considered that Bacon's name could be included in the list of Founders of the United States of America

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bacon

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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2015 6:03 pm 
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Maybe Jefferson was "in the know"? I believe the book came with one of the Nevilles.

The TO was an intended typo, yes, but it was primarily intended to indicate the Tau cross and the circle - the Crux Ansata. Some see this as the principles of the Rose and the Cross, being the feminine and masculine.


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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2015 7:34 pm 
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Boteswaine wrote:
Maybe Jefferson was "in the know"? I believe the book came with one of the Nevilles.

The TO was an intended typo, yes, but it was primarily intended to indicate the Tau cross and the circle - the Crux Ansata. Some see this as the principles of the Rose and the Cross, being the feminine and masculine.


Now you've brought up the Egyptians and the Ankh the symbol of Life and I'll counter with Bacon's New Atlantis


Bacon's vision for a utopian New World in North America may have been laid out in his novel The New Atlantis, which takes place on a fictional island, Bensalem, in the Pacific Ocean. Freedom of religion existed on Bensalem – a Jew is treated equally on an island of Christians – but whether a novel may have actually influenced later ideas, such as women's rights, abolition of slavery, elimination of debtors' prisons, separation of church and state, and freedom of political expression, is a matter of debat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Ba ... scheme.jpg

Newfoundland's postage stamp


The Mi'kmaq hieroglyphic writing has been talked about and
here is an example of their Ave Maria

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi%27kmaq_ ... ria%29.jpg

you will see a upside down Ankh version
Mi'kmaq is the oldest writing system for a native language north of Mexico.
Their birch scrolls were purposely burned by the church ......but some survived :) 8)

As you can tell Botswaine
I really enjoy this topic :)


Rosy cross had a lodge I believe in Toulouse
Why am I not surprised .....Home of the Cathars

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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2015 9:21 pm 
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I was in Toulouse many years ago, participating in the César Franck Organ Competition. Wonderful place. Of course New Atlantis is involved in this. So far I am not yet convinced about the local Mi'kmaq.


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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2015 10:40 pm 
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Boteswaine wrote:
I was in Toulouse many years ago, participating in the César Franck Organ Competition. Wonderful place. Of course New Atlantis is involved in this. So far I am not yet convinced about the local Mi'kmaq.


I understand
but I'll add this
an example of a birchbark scroll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiigwaasab ... n-1885.PNG

Some scrolls are songs and details of Midewiwin rituals and medicine lodges
Some of the oldest maps of North America were made by natives, who wrote on birch bark for explorers and traders to follow
Some scrolls give the history of the Ojibway migration from Eastern North America to further west
There are many claims made by elders and aboriginal teachers that humans have existed in North America before the last ice age, and ancient ways of writing and other ancient skills and artifacts may provide some clues to the migration patterns and history of North American and South American peoples.

They had a flood story similar to the Old Testament Noah and other civilizations

but back to Bacon and his New Atlantis and Shakespeare
Shakespeare take on names


Juliet:
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2).......................................TO :)



Ecclesiastes, 1:9:

What has been is what will be,

and has been done is what will be done;..

Does History repeat itself?

It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but in ourselves.
William Shakespeare

and



Macbeth:
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Macbeth Act 5, scene 5, 19–28

He was a genius and Great Bard!

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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2015 5:53 pm 
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The frontispiece for Bacon's Instauratio Magna:

http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/ ... aconfp.gif

New Atlantis if you care to read it:

http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/ ... antis.html

A great book about Bacon, by Loren Eiseley, one of the formative influencers of my youth:

http://www.amazon.com/Through-Scribner- ... 0684132850

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 Post subject: Re: Petter Amundsen?
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2015 9:32 pm 
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It must have been such a change in consciousness to find out there was another world out there not touched by Christianity or Rome
like discovering a new planet with life on it

The consciousness of the world changed soon a bunch of rebels will sign the Declaration of Independence and have no king or queen to rule them or
freedom of religion.

New Atlantis
or Arcadia....was the New World at that time changed to Acadia

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_in_Ar ... in_052.jpg

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