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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2014 6:11 pm 
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Aedis wrote:


So would you agree that these two sites might be completely unrelated?

Also, I'm interested to know. What do you think the Templar fleet of 18 ships at la Rochelle consisted of?



No I would not, as I said I'm waiting for the results of the current research.

I'm not sure what your question is here. If the type of ship, I believe most would have been Venetian designed galleys, as the Templars had bought six of these in 1293 that formed part of a fleet that in 1300 made raids on Egypt and Syria.
Earlier in 1274 the Templars were ordered to build a fleet of ships as they could no longer count on the Italian shipbuilders, but they seemed to have overcome that problem by 1293.
It had to have been a large number of vessels that sailed from Cyprus to France (more than likely La Rochelle) in 1307. And it is known that they had vessels and equipment at that port because of their lucrative wine trade up and down the Atlantic Coast to as far north as England.

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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2014 10:39 pm 
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wayward wrote:
In all of your references there is only one ambiguous dotted line showing any trade with the Eastern Mediterranean. The Norse did control the Volga trades routes (very early for our purposes) but the Volga only connects to the Caspian Sea, not the Eastern Med.
One source says the Vikings were quite active in the region of the Iberian Peninsula and the coast of North Africa, still not the Eastern Med.
And you are correct Ghost, the Vikings could have traded with somebody else for coir or coconut fibre, but as I mentioned it probably would have been too early for our 1260 to 1400 dating of when the plant died.
A Viking answer for the coconut fibres of this date, while possible is tenuous at best. I would think you would even agree with that.


Just because they stopped being Vikings about the middle of the 12th Century doesn't mean Scandinavian countries stopped trading with North Africa.

FS

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2014 11:30 pm 
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Bill,

this may sound like an odd question, but I am genuinely interested. Obviously you've done a bunch of research on this over time, but what was the original kernel that made you pursue the idea of the Templars in Nova Scotia? In other words, what was the exciting fact/concept/finding that turned you on and made you want to put in the effort?

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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2014 1:52 am 
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High King

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Caelum wrote:
Bill,

this may sound like an odd question, but I am genuinely interested. Obviously you've done a bunch of research on this over time, but what was the original kernel that made you pursue the idea of the Templars in Nova Scotia? In other words, what was the exciting fact/concept/finding that turned you on and made you want to put in the effort?



Wow Caelum, nobody has ask me that before. I want to post an answer but tonight I have been drinking, so to speak, I will answer that question in the morning.

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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2014 2:04 am 
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Grand Master

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Quote:
I want to post an answer but tonight I have been drinking,


That sounds like a good plan. Time to crack open a beer and watch tonight's episode!


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2014 8:29 am 
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wayward wrote:
Umm. are you saying that Germanic, and Scandinavians migrating to the area of the Byzantine Empire in the 9th, 10th and 11th centurys, accounts for Coconut fibres dated from between 1260 to 1400 on the shores of Nova Scotia?


Perhaps Icelandic members of the Varangarian Guard, returning home after their hitch was up, or after the Guard was abolished (assuming it ever was), or following the fall of Constantinople (assuming the Guard wasn't abolished before then), one of whom might have later visited the mainland, or sold his ship to Greenlanders who visited the mainland, or something like that.

FS

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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2014 4:50 pm 
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High King

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wayward wrote:
Caelum wrote:
Bill,

this may sound like an odd question, but I am genuinely interested. Obviously you've done a bunch of research on this over time, but what was the original kernel that made you pursue the idea of the Templars in Nova Scotia? In other words, what was the exciting fact/concept/finding that turned you on and made you want to put in the effort?



Wow Caelum, nobody has ask me that before. I want to post an answer but tonight I have been drinking, so to speak, I will answer that question in the morning.



OK Caelum, I hope you ready for this.
We had a cabin in the Union Pass area of the Wind River Mountains of Wyoming (now sold). In late summer of 2007 I was sleeping in our upstairs bedroom and when I woke up in the morning a woman dressed in some kind of ancient clothes was standing at the foot of the bed. I am not for sure I was awake, and I could not now describe her clothes. She told me to "find her grave" and then left. I have never remembered a dream for more then an hour prior to this and I was kind of shaken because it seemed so real. As a matter of fact, when we left for Michigan I stopped on the Oregon Trail (which passes about 65 miles from where our cabin was) and looked for some kind of evidence of a grave from the 1800s that I thought was maybe never recognized. When we got back to Michigan a few days later, our friends wanted to go see the movie "The da Vinci Code", which we did. At that time I hadn't yet told anybody about my experience in Wyoming.
It is of course possible that my connection with the Oregon Trail unconsciously produced this effect as I had previously spent quite a bit of time exploring it during my time in Wyoming.
I still do have quite a bit of doubt about the validity of dreams, but this is what got me going, so to speak.

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Last edited by wayward on 20 Dec 2014 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2014 5:56 pm 
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wayward wrote:
wayward wrote:
Caelum wrote:
Bill,

this may sound like an odd question, but I am genuinely interested. Obviously you've done a bunch of research on this over time, but what was the original kernel that made you pursue the idea of the Templars in Nova Scotia? In other words, what was the exciting fact/concept/finding that turned you on and made you want to put in the effort?



Wow Caelum, nobody has ask me that before. I want to post an answer but tonight I have been drinking, so to speak, I will answer that question in the morning.



OK Caelum, I hope you ready for this.
We had a cabin in the Wind River Mountains of Wyoming (now sold). In late summer of 2007 I was sleeping in our upstairs bedroom and when I woke up in the morning a woman dressed in some kind of ancient clothes was standing at the foot of the bed. I am not for sure I was awake, and I could not now describe her clothes. She told me to "find her grave" and then left. I have never remembered a dream for more then an hour prior to this and I was kind of shaken because it seemed so real. As a matter of fact, when we left for Michigan I stopped on the Oregon Trail (which passes about 65 miles from where our cabin was) and looked for some kind of evidence of a grave from the 1800s that I thought was maybe never recognized. When we got back to Michigan a few days later, our friends wanted to go see the movie "The da Vinci Code", which we did. At that time I hadn't yet told anybody about my experience in Wyoming.
It is of course possible that my connection with the Oregon Trail unconsciously produced this effect as I had previously spent quite a bit of time exploring it during my time in Wyoming.
I still do have quite a bit of doubt about the validity of dreams, but this is what got me going, so to speak.


Oh, Bill, that was just the classic Sacagawea dream - everyone's had those! ;-)

Thanks for sharing that Bill.

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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2014 8:04 pm 
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High King

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Caelum wrote:

Oh, Bill, that was just the classic Sacagawea dream - everyone's had those! ;-)

Thanks for sharing that Bill.



Could be, she was buried just down the road from my cabin.

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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2014 12:29 pm 
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Tonight's episode is supposed to be quite revealing, but as this was filmed last fall it would seem that any great discovery would have already become public information.

The persons now conducting research (well, in the summer)at New Ross are telling me they should be able to reveal their findings this coming summer.

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PostPosted: 24 Dec 2014 2:04 am 
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Quote:
Tonight's episode is supposed to be quite revealing, but as this was filmed last fall it would seem that any great discovery would have already become public information.


Yeah I would assume the local government would have got involved as well and we would have heard about it.

Quote:
The persons now conducting research (well, in the summer)at New Ross are telling me they should be able to reveal their findings this coming summer.


wayward I have to admit I still don't get this: Harris had said all the of the artifacts she found were from the Viking age, but a number of people such as yourself believe the site is from the Templar era.
Yet when I read about the Templar theories Joan Harris get's cited.

How do they reconcile the two?


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PostPosted: 24 Dec 2014 3:04 am 
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Well I don't know what everyone else thought, but that had to be one of the most boring episodes of the show?


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PostPosted: 24 Dec 2014 3:07 am 
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High King

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Aedis wrote:
Quote:
Tonight's episode is supposed to be quite revealing, but as this was filmed last fall it would seem that any great discovery would have already become public information.


Yeah I would assume the local government would have got involved as well and we would have heard about it.

Quote:
The persons now conducting research (well, in the summer)at New Ross are telling me they should be able to reveal their findings this coming summer.


wayward I have to admit I still don't get this: Harris had said all the of the artifacts she found were from the Viking age, but a number of people such as yourself believe the site is from the Templar era.
Yet when I read about the Templar theories Joan Harris get's cited.

How do they reconcile the two?



When Joan began this the Templars were not considered for a couple of reasons, first and foremost was that their story was not as well known in 1972 as it is now. Not many had heard about the 1307 arrests in France or knew about the large amounts of gold and treasures that disappeared at the time.
Now after "Holy Blood Holy Grail" and "The da Vinci Code" everybody knows the story, or at least part of it.
Of course it still isn't common knowledge that the Templars spent their first two decades in Jerusalem looking for artifacts for the Church.
Yeah, I just looked at your post and I have to agree, it was boring. But I have always said there is nothing on Oak Island except a few mooring stones.

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PostPosted: 24 Dec 2014 4:38 am 
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wayward wrote:
Yeah, I just looked at your post and I have to agree, it was boring. But I have always said there is nothing on Oak Island except a few mooring stones.


These guys are looking more like clowns every episode, Kathleen McGowan, Alan Butler, J Hutton Pulitzer. Who`s next Giorgio Tsoukalos.


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PostPosted: 24 Dec 2014 3:25 pm 
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Crimson_Ghost wrote:
wayward wrote:
Yeah, I just looked at your post and I have to agree, it was boring. But I have always said there is nothing on Oak Island except a few mooring stones.


These guys are looking more like clowns every episode, Kathleen McGowan, Alan Butler, J Hutton Pulitzer. Who`s next Giorgio Tsoukalos.



A couple of things I would like to point out here Ghost. First, they are not the producers, after they signed on the dotted line the producers run the show. Second, they did not come into this with many years of research on some of the things being brought up. For instance I doubt they knew who Kathleen McGowan even was. I remember before this actually started Marty had said when they finished, he hoped it would be the Knight Templars who were at the bottom of the Oak Island mystery. They dove into this project with the idea that somebody had hidden something on Oak Island and as you know (whether you buy into it or not) the list of the possible somebody's is quite long.
They are not clowns, they are successful Michigan businessmen with many years of experience in their own line of work.
I do know that you are not calling them clowns yourself, but I think it important to know that Marty, Rick or Craig do not necessarily call the shots.
I remember when you and I traded a few PM's back when we first joined the forum, I don't think I knew who any of those people you mentioned were, and I'm betting a beer you didn't either. Let me know if you owe me a beer.
Cheers

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PostPosted: 24 Dec 2014 4:08 pm 
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wayward wrote:
Crimson_Ghost wrote:
wayward wrote:
Yeah, I just looked at your post and I have to agree, it was boring. But I have always said there is nothing on Oak Island except a few mooring stones.


These guys are looking more like clowns every episode, Kathleen McGowan, Alan Butler, J Hutton Pulitzer. Who`s next Giorgio Tsoukalos.



A couple of things I would like to point out here Ghost. First, they are not the producers, after they signed on the dotted line the producers run the show. Second, they did not come into this with many years of research on some of the things being brought up. For instance I doubt they knew who Kathleen McGowan even was. I remember before this actually started Marty had said when they finished, he hoped it would be the Knight Templars who were at the bottom of the Oak Island mystery. They dove into this project with the idea that somebody had hidden something on Oak Island and as you know (whether you buy into it or not) the list of the possible somebody's is quite long.
They are not clowns, they are successful Michigan businessmen with many years of experience in their own line of work.
I do know that you are not calling them clowns yourself, but I think it important to know that Marty, Rick or Craig do not necessarily call the shots.
I remember when you and I traded a few PM's back when we first joined the forum, I don't think I knew who any of those people you mentioned were, and I'm betting a beer you didn't either. Let me know if you owe me a beer.
Cheers


Hi Bill, I know the Lagina`s and Tester are not clowns in real life. They are successful men in the O&G world, something some of us Western Pennsylvanians know a bit about. But, dealing with the people they have been involved with on this show make them look foolish. It`s unfortunate the "history" channel has a problem using genuine academics who promote genuine history.

Our previous PM`s are lost in my memory, regardless I`ll always be interested in that beer or two. I really enjoy some Michigan Breweries, Bell`s, Founders, Atwater a few of my fav`s. I`ve never sampled any Traverse City stuff though.


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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2014 10:10 pm 
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wayward wrote:
Aedis wrote:
Quote:
Tonight's episode is supposed to be quite revealing, but as this was filmed last fall it would seem that any great discovery would have already become public information.


Yeah I would assume the local government would have got involved as well and we would have heard about it.

Quote:
The persons now conducting research (well, in the summer)at New Ross are telling me they should be able to reveal their findings this coming summer.


wayward I have to admit I still don't get this: Harris had said all the of the artifacts she found were from the Viking age, but a number of people such as yourself believe the site is from the Templar era.
Yet when I read about the Templar theories Joan Harris get's cited.

How do they reconcile the two?



When Joan began this the Templars were not considered for a couple of reasons, first and foremost was that their story was not as well known in 1972 as it is now. Not many had heard about the 1307 arrests in France or knew about the large amounts of gold and treasures that disappeared at the time.
Now after "Holy Blood Holy Grail" and "The da Vinci Code" everybody knows the story, or at least part of it.
Of course it still isn't common knowledge that the Templars spent their first two decades in Jerusalem looking for artifacts for the Church.
Yeah, I just looked at your post and I have to agree, it was boring. But I have always said there is nothing on Oak Island except a few mooring stones.


Well let's see how tonight's show pans out. Hopefully it will be more interesting than last week.


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PostPosted: 31 Dec 2014 12:41 am 
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Is it not on tonight? :?:


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PostPosted: 31 Dec 2014 10:08 am 
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High King

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Aedis wrote:
Is it not on tonight? :?:


Guess not! I had thought it would be.

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2015 12:03 am 
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wayward wrote:
Aedis wrote:
Is it not on tonight? :?:


Guess not! I had thought it would be.


Me too. The holiday's must have resulted in the schedule changing.


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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2015 11:29 pm 
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Aedis wrote:
wayward wrote:
Aedis wrote:
Is it not on tonight? :?:


Guess not! I had thought it would be.


Me too. The holiday's must have resulted in the schedule changing.


I think I'm pretty safe in blaming this on Templars.

FS

_________________
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You've discovered you can look inside yourself
You know what that means? You're promoted.
You're no longer a bum; you're an artist."

Hans Richter "Dreams That Money Can Buy"


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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2015 11:55 am 
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Father Silence wrote:
I think I'm pretty safe in blaming this on Templars.

FS


Ha ha, it is to laugh.

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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2015 1:43 am 
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wayward,

Interested to hear your thoughts on this article regarding the last show of Curse of Oak Island:

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/revie ... e-templars


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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2015 3:44 am 
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High King

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Aedis wrote:
wayward,

Interested to hear your thoughts on this article regarding the last show of Curse of Oak Island:

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/revie ... e-templars



You want me to respond to Jason Colavito's thoughts on the Oak Island group when I don't agree with either of them?
I mentioned earlier that I believe I recently stood on the Templar cache and it was some 70 miles from Oak Island. I never thought Oak Island was anything more than a temporary port, and I still don't. As for 18 Templar ships leaving La Rochelle with only 50 some sailors, the testimony didn't tell us how many were still at the ships during all the goings on in France did they? When de Molay left La Rochelle for his meeting with Clement wouldn't he have left personnel at the harbor, and wouldn't that be well manned anyhow, after all it was a major Templar port. Wouldn't Also, many other Templars who wished to escape meet at La Rochelle? Actually I have always premised the ships could have escaped anytime up to 30 days before October 13th because as you know the arrest warrant actually was issued a month earlier then the arrests were to take place.
How can anybody believe that a Venetian built or Venetian designed vessel that plied the waters of the Mediterranean from France to Cyprus would be any less seaworthy then a Viking ship from off the Atlantic? I live in the Great Lakes area and I can attest to the fact that any ship that sails the Great Lakes safely can also do well in the Ocean. That is of course except for the extra long Great Lakes freighters that would break in half between large Ocean swells. And don't forget the longest open water leg between Scotland and Nova Scotia using the Viking route was less than 250 miles.
The small secret inner circle of the Templars of which the highest ranking escaping Templar, Gerard de Villers, was in charge did not need 18 galleys for their mission, as a matter of fact I always premised two or three. More than likely the 18 vessels that left La Rochelle went several different directions with many of them going south to Portugal and a new order created for them.
The fact is that the testimony says there were 18 ships, and they did go somewhere, right?

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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2015 3:49 pm 
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wayward wrote:
Aedis wrote:
wayward,

Interested to hear your thoughts on this article regarding the last show of Curse of Oak Island:

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/revie ... e-templars



You want me to respond to Jason Colavito's thoughts on the Oak Island group when I don't agree with either of them?


Well yeah, that's why I asked you ( I did say show rather than group though) ;).
His article touches upon some other issues we have discussed on this thread, such as the Templar ships. That's why I was interested to see what you thought of his response to the theories in the show - since subjects like the ships, regardless of whether you think they ended up at Oak Island or New Ross, are relevant to both theories.


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