Arcadia Discussion Zone

Forums dedicated to history's mysteries, Rennes-le-Château and beyond…

Read the Arcadia Forum House Rules

It is currently 13 Dec 2017 3:25 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Money Pit
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2013 8:23 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 11 Nov 2009 4:34 pm
Posts: 3058
Location: traverse city,michigan
Robert N wrote:
lovuian wrote:
Its interesting that the MikMaq flag is like the red and white flag of the Crusaders

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi%27kmaq_people
Its a coincidence :wink:


:lol:

The Mikmaq were converted to Christianity in 1610. The flag was drawn up later; the cross explicitly represents Christ. So it is clearly not a coincidence, nor does it have any mystery or connection to crusaders or templers visiting Canada.



On June 24, 1610 Mi'Kmaq Chief Henri Membertou and 20 members of his family were baptized in Nova Scotia near St. Mary's Bay. I don't think this shows that all of the Mi'Kmaq were converted to Christianity in that year.

_________________
on the trail of the grail


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Money Pit
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2013 8:41 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 11285
Location: France
Hmm... do i smell Jesuits ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Money Pit
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2013 9:27 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 11 Nov 2009 4:34 pm
Posts: 3058
Location: traverse city,michigan
Sheila wrote:
Hmm... do i smell Jesuits ?


Surprisingly no! When Port Royal was abandoned in 1607, its governor, Jean de Poutrincourt was intent on returning. When Henry IV became convinced to set up a mission there he requested Poutrincourt to use Jesuit priests, but instead in 1610 he took a secular priest, Jesse Fleche to set up the mission requested by Henry IV. Two reasons for this were that the Hugenot investors for the expedition would back out if Jesuits were involved and Poutrincourt himself did not much care for the Jesuits. Father Jesse Fleche baptized Chief Henri Membertou along with his family in that same year. Chief Membertou had commanded a small following of Mi'Kmaq.

_________________
on the trail of the grail


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Money Pit
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2013 11:57 pm 
Offline
Emperor
User avatar

Joined: 22 Jun 2009 10:28 pm
Posts: 5438
Location: NA
wayward wrote:
Sheila wrote:
Hmm... do i smell Jesuits ?


Surprisingly no! When Port Royal was abandoned in 1607, its governor, Jean de Poutrincourt was intent on returning. When Henry IV became convinced to set up a mission there he requested Poutrincourt to use Jesuit priests, but instead in 1610 he took a secular priest, Jesse Fleche to set up the mission requested by Henry IV. Two reasons for this were that the Hugenot investors for the expedition would back out if Jesuits were involved and Poutrincourt himself did not much care for the Jesuits. Father Jesse Fleche baptized Chief Henri Membertou along with his family in that same year. Chief Membertou had commanded a small following of Mi'Kmaq.


Jesuits' interest had always been present and they followed in 1611.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Biard

Quote:
Pierre Biard (1567 – November 17, 1622) was a Jesuit missionary who was given orders by Father Pierre Coton SJ, Jesuit provincial in Paris, along with Father Enemond Masse,sj,confessor to the Regente, Maria de Medicis, widow of Henri IV, mother of young Louis XIII, to take charge of a mission at Port-Royal in Acadia, or Mi'kma'ki, to use the indigenous name.[1]




Quote:
Pierre Biard was born in Grenoble, France in 1576. He entered the Jesuit monastic order where he received his education. Later, he was awarded a scholastic chair in the topics of theology and Hebrew in Lyon.[2]


Quote:
Father Biard's trip to Acadia

In 1608, Father Coton called him away from his professorship with orders to serve the mission of Port-Royal in Acadia, or more properly Mi'kma'ki, the Indigenous name. It had been founded by Jean de Biencourt, known as Poutrincourt, a devout Catholic, in 1606, abandoned for financial reasons in 1607, then restored by Poutrincourt in 1610 who was appointed Lieutenant Governor by Sieur de Monts, now more interested in Quebec, founded by Champlain by his appointment in 1608. L'abbe Jesse Fleche accompanied Poutincourt, and by the end of the year he had baptized 140 Mi'kmaq. The Mi'kmaq had known the French for over 100 years; those living near Port-Royal had known them intimately since 1606. It was common pastoral practice in France at the time to baptize without a complete instruction with the assumption that the Christian community would lead the neophytes to a fuller faith. The Catholic Church practised infant baptism on the same basis. The Jesuits were eager to take on the mission, and Pierre Biard, SJ, and Énemond Massé, SJ, finally secured passage to Acadia on 21 January 1611. They achieved this by becoming part owners of a ship and its cargo bound for Acadia, purchased through the help of the zealous, well connected Marquise de Guercheville. They arrived on Pentecost Day May 22, and l'abbe Fleche left on the next ship to France. The Jesuits required fuller instruction and greater signs of faith before baptizing except when a person was in danger of death, a pastoral practice just being introduced in France. Biard vehemently criticized the earlier pastoral practise, and when those who desired baptism were refused, their resentment slowly built up against the Jesuits. In their two years followed a stricter policy, they baptized 21 persons, all of whom were dying. Biard did little to soothe tensions, fell out with the King's official,Charles de Biencourt, 21, son of Poutrincourt, in France trying to raise funds for the colony. He actually excommunicated the whole community from Ash Wednesday, 1612 until June 25 of that year, when he sought a reconciliation. [3] Madame de Guercheville purchased Acadia from Sieur de Monts, obtained financial support from her many friends at the royal court, and arranged for a vessel under the authority of René Le Coq de La Saussaye at the Jesuits' request to bring them, now four, to another a locale of their choice for a new mission. A series of circumstances, for one thing the crew refused to sail further south-west, they chose a bay on Mount Desert Island to found their new post, giving it the name of Saint-Sauveur, Holy Saviour. Hardly unpacked, they soon came under attack by Sir Samuel Argall, fishing out of the Virginia colony, who had been alerted to their presence by innocent Indigenous who thought Argall was French too. The whole colony quickly surrendered to Argall's superior firepower, Brother Du Thet, SJ, being killed in the fray, the first Jesuit to die in North America. Pere Masse and Saussaye with several French colonists were set loose in a shalloup, supplied with food by the local Penobscot, with the expectation that they could find a French shipping vessel off the coast of Nova Scotia hundreds of miles of Atlantic Ocean away. They were successful due to the fortuitous meeting with the pilot of their ship in his own shalloup who had with him several French sailors he had succeeded in freeing from the English. Fathers Biard and the new priest, and four other French colonists, skilled labourers, were taken on their own ship to Jamestown, Virginia. There the Governor intended to hang them as pirates on English land, at which point Argall owned up that he had stolen La Sassaye's official documents from King Louis XIII, making their position legal. Argall was then ordered to take Pere Biard and Quentin on a mission to destroy all traces of the French presence on the Atlantic coast, an earlier base on the Ste. Croix River,at Saint-Sauveur, and at Port-Royal. They succeeded, and a controversy arose over who directed them to the well hidden Port-Royal, Biard being a suspect. He in turn pointed the finger at a Maliseet chief. On the journey home, Biard's ship was blown east to the Azores, and thence sailed to England where he and Quentin were freed to return to France where they resumed their previous ministry, Biard dying in 1622 after writing about these adventures. Pere Masse returned as a missionary to New France at the age of 60 with the great Jean de Brebuef, SJ, in 1625, and died there in 1646.

_________________
************


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Money Pit
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2013 9:29 am 
Offline
High King

Joined: 11 Nov 2009 4:34 pm
Posts: 3058
Location: traverse city,michigan
rain wrote:
wayward wrote:

Surprisingly no! When Port Royal was abandoned in 1607, its governor, Jean de Poutrincourt was intent on returning. When Henry IV became convinced to set up a mission there he requested Poutrincourt to use Jesuit priests, but instead in 1610 he took a secular priest, Jesse Fleche to set up the mission requested by Henry IV. Two reasons for this were that the Hugenot investors for the expedition would back out if Jesuits were involved and Poutrincourt himself did not much care for the Jesuits. Father Jesse Fleche baptized Chief Henri Membertou along with his family in that same year. Chief Membertou had commanded a small following of Mi'Kmaq.


Jesuits' interest had always been present and they followed in 1611.




Of course the Jesuit's had always been interested, which is why I answered Sheila's question, (which I assumed was, were the Jesuits responsible for baptizing Chief Membertou and his family) with a"surprisingly no".

_________________
on the trail of the grail


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Money Pit
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2013 11:35 am 
Offline
High King

Joined: 11 Nov 2009 4:34 pm
Posts: 3058
Location: traverse city,michigan
lovuian wrote:
Its interesting that the MikMaq flag is like the red and white flag of the Crusaders

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi%27kmaq_people
Its a coincidence :wink:




How many know that the Mi'kmaq of Nova Scotia invented Hockey?

_________________
on the trail of the grail


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Money Pit
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2013 2:45 pm 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 27 Sep 2007 10:08 pm
Posts: 546
Location: London
wayward wrote:
How many know that the Mi'kmaq of Nova Scotia invented Hockey?


Almost. Ice Hockey Sticks and perhaps Lacrosse. But not Hockey.

Hockey was invented by the English, although similar games existed around the world far back in time. Ice Hockey was invented some years later in Canada under unclear circumstances involving English, Icelanders and Mikmaq sticks. I'm not aware that they are credited with inventing the game, just improving the equipment.

Lacrosse was being played across Canada by everyone including the Mikmaq when the Jesuits arrived.

_________________
The Truth is in here:

http://www.criticalenquiry.org/oakisland/index.shtml

http://priory-of-sion.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Money Pit
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2013 8:01 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 11 Nov 2009 4:34 pm
Posts: 3058
Location: traverse city,michigan
Robert N wrote:
wayward wrote:
How many know that the Mi'kmaq of Nova Scotia invented Hockey?


Almost. Ice Hockey Sticks and perhaps Lacrosse. But not Hockey.

Hockey was invented by the English, although similar games existed around the world far back in time. Ice Hockey was invented some years later in Canada under unclear circumstances involving English, Icelanders and Mikmaq sticks. I'm not aware that they are credited with inventing the game, just improving the equipment.

Lacrosse was being played across Canada by everyone including the Mikmaq when the Jesuits arrived.



It wasn't lacrosse either, it was a game similar to todays ice hockey, and as for the origin of ice hockey http://www.birthplaceofhockey.com/

_________________
on the trail of the grail


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Money Pit
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2013 8:19 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2009 3:29 am
Posts: 8934
Location: Texas
Oh wow guys I didn't know that fascinating how the Mi'kmaq are connected just another example
Hockey


A similar game (knattleikr) had been played for a thousand years or more by the Vikings, as documented in the Icelandic sagas.

Vikings and we know Leif came over

The games of British soldiers and immigrants to Canada (influenced by First Nations stick-and-ball games) may have influenced the game played on ice skates (often with a puck) with sticks made by the Mi'kmaq people of Nova Scotia.

These games provided recreation for British soldiers. Canadian oral histories describe a traditional stick-and-ball game played by the Mi'kmaq in eastern Canada, and Silas Tertius Rand (in his 1894 Legends of the Micmacs) describes a Mi'kmaq ball game known as tooadijik. Rand also describes a game played (probably after European contact) with hurleys, known as wolchamaadijik.[7]


Early 19th-century paintings depict shinney (or "shinny"), an early form of hockey with no standard rules which was played in Nova Scotia.

Nova Scotia does has a large history to play in the history of hockey

_________________
Everything is Connected and there are no
coincidences


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Money Pit
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2013 8:28 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 11285
Location: France
Ah, the Shinty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinty


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Money Pit
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2013 8:15 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2009 3:29 am
Posts: 8934
Location: Texas
Sheila wrote:



Shinty is older than the recorded history of Scotland. It is thought to predate Christianity, having come to Scotland with the Gaels from Ireland.[5] Hurling, which is a similar game to shinty, is derived from the historic game common to both peoples which has been a distinct Irish pastime for at least 2,000 years.[6] Shinty/Hurling appears prominently in the legend of Cúchulainn, the Celtic mythology hero.[7] A similar game was played on the Isle of Man known as cammag, a name cognate with camanachd. The old form of hurling played in the northern half of Ireland, called "commons", resembled shinty more closely than the standardised form of hurling of today. Like shinty it was commonly known as camánacht and was traditionally played in winter.

great link Sheila

_________________
Everything is Connected and there are no
coincidences


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group