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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2014 9:42 am 
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Queen Bee
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Frankfurt flattened in WWII. - I.G. Farben building (top; left of centre) untouched

Here's why.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cndo4BJt2fA


Last edited by roscoe on 02 Feb 2014 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I.G.Farben
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2014 9:00 pm 
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roscoe wrote:
Frankfurt flattened in WWII. - I.G. Farben building (top; left of centre) untouched

Here's why.......


1. It wasn't untouched, it was hit several times by bombs (during WW2 and then again in 1972). Every IG Farben building was a target, the Frankfurt one was pretty much the only survivor of the war.

2. It was next to the Grüneburgpark prisoner of war camp which was holding captured American airmen. The allies were trying not to bomb that. They managed not to, nor did they hit many other buildings in the area. "Frankfurt flattened" is just hyperbole.

3. There's a loony nazi conspiracy theory that Eisenhower and the evil joows conspired to save the building. There is NO evidence to support this stupid idea.

4. I'm still not wasting my time looking at Roscoe's youtube links so I've no idea what fact-free idiocy he is promoting this time.

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 Post subject: Re: I.G.Farben
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2014 6:06 am 
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No evidence that you see.

But then you have your head up your arse and unable to see anything.

The youtube clip is a lecture from this guy.

Image

Dr. Matthias Rath

Quote:
Dr. Rath was born in Stuttgart, Germany, in 1955. After graduating from medical school he worked as a physician and researcher at the University Clinic of Hamburg, Germany and the German Heart Center in Berlin. His research focused on the causes of arteriosclerosis and cardiovascular disease.

In 1987, Dr. Rath discovered the connection between vitamin C deficiency and a new risk factor for heart disease- lipoprotein(a).

After publication of these research findings in the American Heart Association journal "Arteriosclerosis," Dr. Rath accepted an invitation to join two-time Nobel Laureate Linus Pauling. In 1990 he went to the United States to become the first Director of Cardiovascular Research at the Linus Pauling Institute in Palo Alto, California.

Dr. Rath worked together with the late Nobel Laureate in various areas of nutritional research. The two scientists became close personal friends who shared common humanistic values, including their determination for peace and justice.

In 1994, shortly before his death, Linus Pauling stated: "There is no doubt in my mind that I was thinking about Dr. Rath as my successor."

Today Dr. Rath heads a research and development institute in nutritional and Cellular Medicine. His institute is conducting basic research and clinical studies to scientifically document the health benefits of micronutrients in fighting a multitude of diseases.

Dr. Rath is the founder of the scientific concept of Cellular Medicine, the systematic introduction into clinical medicine of the biochemical knowledge of the role of micronutrients as biocatalysts in a multitude of metabolic reactions at the cellular level.

Applying this scientific knowledge in the fight against diseases, he and his research team have identified the following common health conditions as being primarily caused by chronic deficiencies of micronutrients:

-Arteriosclerosis (the cause of coronary heart disease and stroke)
-High Blood Pressure
-Heart Failure
-Irregular Heart Beat
-Diabetic circulatory problems
-Osteoporosis
-Many forms of cancer
-Immune deficiencies as a precondition for a variety of infectious diseases, including AIDS



He explains how the leading members of I.G.Farben were arrested and tried during the Nuremberg trials and how they were released and went on to have careers in the pharmaceutical field for the world's leading drug producer - Bayer.

As I've said before I.G.Farben made most of the explosives chemicals and was the centre of the synthetic oil research used by the German armed forces and also made Zyclon B which was used extensively in the Nazi Concentration Camps.


Clearly was deliberately missed by the Allied airforces.
Just as well, the building was later used as the headquarters of the American Post war occupation forces. So no bomb damage was present.

So here's the choice.

Do we listen to someone who admits he deliberately refuses to look at anything he can't handle or do we listen to a man who is responsible for many of the treatments for heart disease.


Last edited by roscoe on 02 Feb 2014 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2014 7:25 am 
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Round two

Remember this scene from

A BRIDGE TOO FAR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1EsDkm_r3o

Friday's show about Operation Market Garden has several Bilderberg references
Sunday 17th September 1944's Operation Market Garden and Bilderberg

Image
Horrocks - Commander of XXX Corps, Monty with Bilderberg founder & former SS officer Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands

1) Firstly Despite being a former SS officer Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands was actually with Field Marshal Montgomery, General Brian Horrocks etc. in Whitehall influencing planning intelligence at the highest level in the run up to Market Garden in September 1944. The Royal Navy and RAF did not trust Bernhard but it seems King George VI insisted he had to be trusted by the Army as he could liase with the Dutch resistance. Trouble with that was he knew very little about Holland, he was a German, brought up in Bavaria who married into the Dutch royal family in 1937. Sir Brian Urquhart makes reference to Bernhard's presence too in the second clip toward the end of the show. Bernhard was chair of the top secret Bilderberg conference from 1954 to 1975. Bernhard had married into Dutch Royalty, Adolf Hitler had sent personal congratulations on his marriage, yet he was planning Market Garden and they'd put Dierich's SS Panzer division at Arnhem - Fancy that.

2) A later chairman of the Bilderberg Lord Peter Carrington was a young Grenadier Guards captain and radio operator in the second squadron of tanks to cross the Nijmegen road bridge. Because he would not go on to Arnhem after the bridge was taken at 18:30hrs on the evening of Wednesday 20th September he was threatened at gunpoint by Captain T. Moffat Burriss of 82nd Airborne who ordered Carrington to get moving. Confronted by Burriss' tommy gun pointing at his head Carrington pulled the lid down on his tank and stayed in there all night. Burriss had just lost half his company seizing the north end of the Nijmegen bridge and now the advance had ground to a halt right at the crucial moment.
At that point evidence suggests the road from Nijmegen to Arnhem was clear of any force that could stop a tank - this we know because of an artillery map passed to parachute regiment liason officer and historian Robert Kershaw by CO of the 10th SS Panzer Division Heinz Harmel before he died. Artillery maps are very reliable because they show exact dispositions of friendly forces so the German artillery does not fire on their own people.
There is also the fact that Harmel was expecting to be able to dramatically blow up the Nijmegen Road bridge that evening when the first British tanks crossed it. When he tried to do this around 18:30hrs the charges failed to go off and this necessitated bringing his forces down from Arnhem to contain the forces he expected to be pouring over the captured Nijmegen bridge at any moment. Trouble was the Arnhem bridge was still being denied to him by Colonel Frost's regiment who held the Arnhem bridge until their defences collapsed around 22:00hrs that evening.
You may have noticed from the timings here that the mighty British Guards Armoured division had precisely 3 hours to make the 9km drive to Arnhem where Frost's men were hanging on by their fingernails. That would have taken Lord Carrington's M4 Sherman about 30 minutes to get there. By 22:00hrs Frost's position was being overrun so why did Peter Carrington, Allan Adair and Brian Horrocks not send one or two battle-groups of tanks through the security pickets which were half way to Arnhem in Elst to relieve the beleagured paratroopers in the nick of time?
Harmel was later to say "The four tanks who crossed the bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent. If they had carried on their advance, it would have been all over for us. ... Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? ... At this instant there were no German armored forces available to block Elst. This gave us time to get Kampfgruppe Knaust down there." The time Horrocks gave them was in fact over seventeen hours, XXX corps did not move out until 12:30hrs the next day by which time the road was utterly impassable, it had been heavily fortified with anti-tank guns, dug-in tank destroyers and of course the notorious Tiger tanks.

3) Then there is the little town of Oosterbeek, which was where the Bristish 1st Airborne division were headquartered in the Hartenstein hotel, surrounded by Germans. The SS called the allied pocket "Der Hexenkessel" which means "Witches Cauldron" because, the lightly armed paratroopers in Oosterbeek who were short of ammunition were facing rockets, flamethrower tanks, Tiger and other heavy tanks as well as anti-aircraft guns. Only a tiny proportion of the British Paras. managed to get back to the allied lines alive. This Oosterbeek 'witches' cauldron' was the venue, ten years later, for the first ever secret Bilderberg meeting at Prince Bernhard's Bilderberg hotel in Oosterbeek.

Incidentally the Bilderberg Hotel was the headquarters of Field Marshall Model during Market Garden.

Now listen to Captain Moffat T Burriss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oIlDTExMLo

Waiting for the Infantry? BULLSHIT!!!!!!!

They waited for SEVENTEEN HOURS

The bridge at Arnhem was still held by the British 1st Airborne when Carrington sat on his arse.

They were stopped by ONE anti Tank Gun. The Polish airborne had landed a mere 5km from this anti-tank gun on the south side of the Rhine. The German commander admitted that there were only picket forces between Carrington and the southern end of Arnhem bridge. The tanks were stopped 7km from the bridge. The allied airforce had stopped flying because they said the weather was bad. Funny how the Luftwaffe carried on flying.

If the bridge had been taken then XXX Corps would have moved into Arnhem the Rhine would have been open and the taking of the Ruhr would be a piece of cake. The war would have been over by Christmas 1944.

PROBLEM.

The Soviets were not to cross the Oder and Weser rivers until January 1945, five months after Market Garden.

The western Allies would have taken most of Germany BEFORE the Soviets.

NO COLD WAR. NO RUSSIAN CAPTURE OF PENNEMUNDE ROCKET SCIENTISTS.

NO MASSIVE PROFITS FOR THE US ARMS INDUSTRIES.

Lord Carrington was later famous for sitting on his butt over the intelligence information that the Argentinians were about to attack the Falklands. He fell on his sword over the incident and Thatcher got another term in office. He also scrapped British made arms deals in favour of US equipment.


Last edited by roscoe on 02 Feb 2014 8:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2014 7:54 am 
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Oh and speaking of Bilderberg

Tony Blair (B-Liar) admits to attending Bilderberg on camera despite saying in the House of Commons that he never attended

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIb8TwJ8mbU

If it's harmless then why lie about it?

Prince Bernhard's daughter attends every year. She is on the board of Royal Dutch Shell, they help fix energy prices.

Image
Here she is in Bilderberg Canada 2012. She's richer than Queen Elizabeth.

They'll be no further comment on this thread about Bilderberg, this is a thread about WWI and WWII.


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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2014 9:35 am 
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Remember how Winston Churchill took over after the Norway debacle. Well Churchill was First Lord of the Admiralty during this campaign and he and Dudley Pound (First Sea Lord, who had a brain tumour and spent most of the campaign asleep) were jointly responsible for it's failure.

Churchill was drunk for most of the Campaign.

Well Churchill was destined to take over after Chamberlain.

read this:

Quote:
The details which I will tell you today, you will not find published in the Churchill biography. For example, you won't even find them published in Churchill's own biography because there were powers above him who were so powerful that they were able to prevent him publishing details that even he wanted to publish that he found dirty and unscrupulous about the origins of the Second World War.

For example, when I was writing my Churchill biography, I came across a lot of private papers in the files of the Time/Life organization in New York. In Columbia University, there are all the private papers of the chief editor of Time/Life, a man called Daniel Longwell. And in there, in those papers, we find all the papers relating to the original publication of the Churchill memoirs in 1947, 1949, the great six-volume set of Churchill memoirs of the Second World War. And I found there a letter from the pre-war German chancellor, the man who preceded Hitler, Dr. Heinrich Brüning, a letter he wrote to Churchill in August 1937. The sequence of events was this: Dr. Brüning became the chancellor and then Hitler succeeded him after a small indistinguishable move by another man. In other words, Brüning was the man whom Hitler replaced. And Brüning had the opportunity to see who was backing Hitler. Very interesting, who was financing Hitler during all his years in the wilderness, and Brüning knew.

Brüning wrote a letter to Churchill after he had been forced to resign and go into exile in England in August 1937, setting out the names and identities of the people who backed Hitler. And after the war, Churchill requested Brüning for permission to publish this letter in his great world history, The six-volume world history. And Brüning said no. In his letter, Brüning wrote, 'I didn't, and do not even today for understandable reasons, wish to reveal from October 1928, the two largest regular contributors to the Nazi Party were the general managers of two of the largest Berlin banks, both of Jewish faith and one of them the leader of Zionism in Germany."

Now there is a letter from Dr. Heinrich Brüning to Churchill in 1949, explaining why he wouldn't give permission to Churchill to publish the August 1937 letter. It was an extraordinary story, out of Churchill's memoirs. Even Churchill wanted to reveal that fact. You begin to sense the difficulties that we have in printing the truth today. Churchill, of course, knew all about lies. He was an expert in lying himself. He put a gloss on it. He would say to his friends, "The truth is such a fragile flower. The truth is so precious, it must be given a bodyguard of lies." This is the way Churchill put it.


Of course this will be challenged so challenge this:

Quote:
"Hitlerism is Satan’s nationalism. The determination to rid the German national body of the Jewish element, however, led Hitlerism to discover its “kinship” with Zionism, the Jewish nationalism of liberation. Therefore Zionism became the only other party legalized in the Reich, the Zionist flag the only other flag permitted to fly in Nazi-land. It was a painful distinction for Zionism to be singled out for favours and privileges by its Satanic counterpart."

Extract from the

The US Congress Bulletin.


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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2014 11:18 pm 
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roscoe wrote:
1) Firstly Despite being a former SS officer Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands was actually with Field Marshal Montgomery, General Brian Horrocks etc. in Whitehall influencing planning intelligence at the highest level in the run up to Market Garden in September 1944. The Royal Navy and RAF did not trust Bernhard but it seems King George VI insisted he had to be trusted by the Army as he could liase with the Dutch resistance. Trouble with that was he knew very little about Holland, he was a German, brought up in Bavaria who married into the Dutch royal family in 1937. Sir Brian Urquhart makes reference to Bernhard's presence too in the second clip toward the end of the show. Bernhard was chair of the top secret Bilderberg conference from 1954 to 1975. Bernhard had married into Dutch Royalty, Adolf Hitler had sent personal congratulations on his marriage, yet he was planning Market Garden and they'd put Dierich's SS Panzer division at Arnhem - Fancy that.

2) A later chairman of the Bilderberg Lord Peter Carrington was a young Grenadier Guards captain and radio operator in the second squadron of tanks to cross the Nijmegen road bridge. Because he would not go on to Arnhem after the bridge was taken at 18:30hrs on the evening of Wednesday 20th September he was threatened at gunpoint by Captain T. Moffat Burriss of 82nd Airborne who ordered Carrington to get moving. Confronted by Burriss' tommy gun pointing at his head Carrington pulled the lid down on his tank and stayed in there all night. Burriss had just lost half his company seizing the north end of the Nijmegen bridge and now the advance had ground to a halt right at the crucial moment.
At that point evidence suggests the road from Nijmegen to Arnhem was clear of any force that could stop a tank - this we know because of an artillery map passed to parachute regiment liason officer and historian Robert Kershaw by CO of the 10th SS Panzer Division Heinz Harmel before he died. Artillery maps are very reliable because they show exact dispositions of friendly forces so the German artillery does not fire on their own people.
There is also the fact that Harmel was expecting to be able to dramatically blow up the Nijmegen Road bridge that evening when the first British tanks crossed it. When he tried to do this around 18:30hrs the charges failed to go off and this necessitated bringing his forces down from Arnhem to contain the forces he expected to be pouring over the captured Nijmegen bridge at any moment. Trouble was the Arnhem bridge was still being denied to him by Colonel Frost's regiment who held the Arnhem bridge until their defences collapsed around 22:00hrs that evening.
You may have noticed from the timings here that the mighty British Guards Armoured division had precisely 3 hours to make the 9km drive to Arnhem where Frost's men were hanging on by their fingernails. That would have taken Lord Carrington's M4 Sherman about 30 minutes to get there. By 22:00hrs Frost's position was being overrun so why did Peter Carrington, Allan Adair and Brian Horrocks not send one or two battle-groups of tanks through the security pickets which were half way to Arnhem in Elst to relieve the beleagured paratroopers in the nick of time?
Harmel was later to say "The four tanks who crossed the bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent. If they had carried on their advance, it would have been all over for us. ... Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? ... At this instant there were no German armored forces available to block Elst. This gave us time to get Kampfgruppe Knaust down there." The time Horrocks gave them was in fact over seventeen hours, XXX corps did not move out until 12:30hrs the next day by which time the road was utterly impassable, it had been heavily fortified with anti-tank guns, dug-in tank destroyers and of course the notorious Tiger tanks.

3) Then there is the little town of Oosterbeek, which was where the Bristish 1st Airborne division were headquartered in the Hartenstein hotel, surrounded by Germans. The SS called the allied pocket "Der Hexenkessel" which means "Witches Cauldron" because, the lightly armed paratroopers in Oosterbeek who were short of ammunition were facing rockets, flamethrower tanks, Tiger and other heavy tanks as well as anti-aircraft guns. Only a tiny proportion of the British Paras. managed to get back to the allied lines alive. This Oosterbeek 'witches' cauldron' was the venue, ten years later, for the first ever secret Bilderberg meeting at Prince Bernhard's Bilderberg hotel in Oosterbeek.

Incidentally the Bilderberg Hotel was the headquarters of Field Marshall Model during Market Garden.

Now listen to Captain Moffat T Burriss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oIlDTExMLo

Waiting for the Infantry? BULLSHIT!!!!!!!

They waited for SEVENTEEN HOURS

The bridge at Arnhem was still held by the British 1st Airborne when Carrington sat on his arse.

They were stopped by ONE anti Tank Gun. The Polish airborne had landed a mere 5km from this anti-tank gun on the south side of the Rhine. The German commander admitted that there were only picket forces between Carrington and the southern end of Arnhem bridge. The tanks were stopped 7km from the bridge. The allied airforce had stopped flying because they said the weather was bad. Funny how the Luftwaffe carried on flying.

If the bridge had been taken then XXX Corps would have moved into Arnhem the Rhine would have been open and the taking of the Ruhr would be a piece of cake. The war would have been over by Christmas 1944.

PROBLEM.

The Soviets were not to cross the Oder and Weser rivers until January 1945, five months after Market Garden.

The western Allies would have taken most of Germany BEFORE the Soviets.

NO COLD WAR. NO RUSSIAN CAPTURE OF PENNEMUNDE ROCKET SCIENTISTS.

NO MASSIVE PROFITS FOR THE US ARMS INDUSTRIES.


I watched the Captain Burriss clip you posted, because I'm interested in the subject, which is vast and complex. It merely recounts a much discussed episode in that campaign, when Britain's XXX Corps slowed their advance, undermining the extraordinary heroism of the US 82nd Airborne who had just suffered catastrophic losses by undertaking a daylight river crossing under heavy fire, with the aim of urgently relieving the besieged British paratroopers further north at Arnhem. Although my understanding of the battle is limited, it was a decision that's always seemed to me to reflect badly on the British commanders who made it, just as it illustrates the immense bravery of the Americans who went across that river. For that reason I'm glad you've drawn attention to it, as it's probably not as well known about as it should be (though I imagine if the roles had been reversed we'd have heard about it endlessly). It was the subject of much recrimination at the time, and much debate amongst historians subsequently. But I've never heard it suggested that XXX Corps did this as part of a fiendish plot to foil the relief effort and prolong the war until such a time as the Russians were in a position to capture great swathes of Germany, thus enacting the cold war, etc., etc. I'm afraid I find such an idea completely absurd.

In any case, if that had been the fear, why launch the operation in the first place, or at least why strike so very far to the north, all the way to Arnhem? Part of the reason why this failed, surely, whilst most of the operation succeeded (the capture of the bridges to the south by the US 82nd and 101st Airbornes) was because it was so recklessly over-ambitious to attempt to go so far. Other factors were the rushed and inadequate preparation, because with the onset of autumn the Allies had a rapidly closing window in which to launch an airborne operation on that scale; poor intelligence in not realising that two SS Panzer divisions had been put near Arnhem, against whom lightly armed paratroopers were at a huge disadvantage; terrible communications; weather issues; the difficulties of moving a large armoured column at speed along a single road; the capture of the allied battle plan from a crashed glider; and myriad other factors.

But what Burriss and his men did was exceptional, as were the actions of the besieged paras at Arnhem, and always very humbling to hear about, and I'm glad you've drawn attention to it, even if I disagree with your other conclusions.


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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2014 11:01 am 
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Quote:
Frankfurt flattened in WWII. - I.G. Farben building (top; left of centre) untouched


did the Nazi's conspire not to bomb St Pauls?


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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2014 11:53 am 
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Davinho wrote:
Quote:
Frankfurt flattened in WWII. - I.G. Farben building (top; left of centre) untouched


did the Nazi's conspire not to bomb St Pauls?


I've been through this before.

Aircrews (German and Allied) tried not to bomb churches because they could use their spires for navigation.

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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2014 11:55 am 
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richard.webster wrote:
the extraordinary heroism of the US 82nd Airborne who had just suffered catastrophic losses by undertaking a daylight river crossing under heavy fire, with the aim of urgently relieving the besieged British paratroopers further north at Arnhem.

whilst most of the operation succeeded (the capture of the bridges to the south by the US 82nd and 101st Airbornes)

But what Burriss and his men did was exceptional, as were the actions of the besieged paras at Arnhem, and always very humbling to hear about, and I'm glad you've drawn attention to it, even if I disagree with your other conclusions.



I always appreciate a good report on my old division (the 82nd), Thanks Richard.

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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2014 11:57 am 
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richard.webster wrote:
roscoe wrote:
1) Firstly Despite being a former SS officer Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands was actually with Field Marshal Montgomery, General Brian Horrocks etc. in Whitehall influencing planning intelligence at the highest level in the run up to Market Garden in September 1944. The Royal Navy and RAF did not trust Bernhard but it seems King George VI insisted he had to be trusted by the Army as he could liase with the Dutch resistance. Trouble with that was he knew very little about Holland, he was a German, brought up in Bavaria who married into the Dutch royal family in 1937. Sir Brian Urquhart makes reference to Bernhard's presence too in the second clip toward the end of the show. Bernhard was chair of the top secret Bilderberg conference from 1954 to 1975. Bernhard had married into Dutch Royalty, Adolf Hitler had sent personal congratulations on his marriage, yet he was planning Market Garden and they'd put Dierich's SS Panzer division at Arnhem - Fancy that.

2) A later chairman of the Bilderberg Lord Peter Carrington was a young Grenadier Guards captain and radio operator in the second squadron of tanks to cross the Nijmegen road bridge. Because he would not go on to Arnhem after the bridge was taken at 18:30hrs on the evening of Wednesday 20th September he was threatened at gunpoint by Captain T. Moffat Burriss of 82nd Airborne who ordered Carrington to get moving. Confronted by Burriss' tommy gun pointing at his head Carrington pulled the lid down on his tank and stayed in there all night. Burriss had just lost half his company seizing the north end of the Nijmegen bridge and now the advance had ground to a halt right at the crucial moment.
At that point evidence suggests the road from Nijmegen to Arnhem was clear of any force that could stop a tank - this we know because of an artillery map passed to parachute regiment liason officer and historian Robert Kershaw by CO of the 10th SS Panzer Division Heinz Harmel before he died. Artillery maps are very reliable because they show exact dispositions of friendly forces so the German artillery does not fire on their own people.
There is also the fact that Harmel was expecting to be able to dramatically blow up the Nijmegen Road bridge that evening when the first British tanks crossed it. When he tried to do this around 18:30hrs the charges failed to go off and this necessitated bringing his forces down from Arnhem to contain the forces he expected to be pouring over the captured Nijmegen bridge at any moment. Trouble was the Arnhem bridge was still being denied to him by Colonel Frost's regiment who held the Arnhem bridge until their defences collapsed around 22:00hrs that evening.
You may have noticed from the timings here that the mighty British Guards Armoured division had precisely 3 hours to make the 9km drive to Arnhem where Frost's men were hanging on by their fingernails. That would have taken Lord Carrington's M4 Sherman about 30 minutes to get there. By 22:00hrs Frost's position was being overrun so why did Peter Carrington, Allan Adair and Brian Horrocks not send one or two battle-groups of tanks through the security pickets which were half way to Arnhem in Elst to relieve the beleagured paratroopers in the nick of time?
Harmel was later to say "The four tanks who crossed the bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent. If they had carried on their advance, it would have been all over for us. ... Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? ... At this instant there were no German armored forces available to block Elst. This gave us time to get Kampfgruppe Knaust down there." The time Horrocks gave them was in fact over seventeen hours, XXX corps did not move out until 12:30hrs the next day by which time the road was utterly impassable, it had been heavily fortified with anti-tank guns, dug-in tank destroyers and of course the notorious Tiger tanks.

3) Then there is the little town of Oosterbeek, which was where the Bristish 1st Airborne division were headquartered in the Hartenstein hotel, surrounded by Germans. The SS called the allied pocket "Der Hexenkessel" which means "Witches Cauldron" because, the lightly armed paratroopers in Oosterbeek who were short of ammunition were facing rockets, flamethrower tanks, Tiger and other heavy tanks as well as anti-aircraft guns. Only a tiny proportion of the British Paras. managed to get back to the allied lines alive. This Oosterbeek 'witches' cauldron' was the venue, ten years later, for the first ever secret Bilderberg meeting at Prince Bernhard's Bilderberg hotel in Oosterbeek.

Incidentally the Bilderberg Hotel was the headquarters of Field Marshall Model during Market Garden.

Now listen to Captain Moffat T Burriss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oIlDTExMLo

Waiting for the Infantry? BULLSHIT!!!!!!!

They waited for SEVENTEEN HOURS

The bridge at Arnhem was still held by the British 1st Airborne when Carrington sat on his arse.

They were stopped by ONE anti Tank Gun. The Polish airborne had landed a mere 5km from this anti-tank gun on the south side of the Rhine. The German commander admitted that there were only picket forces between Carrington and the southern end of Arnhem bridge. The tanks were stopped 7km from the bridge. The allied airforce had stopped flying because they said the weather was bad. Funny how the Luftwaffe carried on flying.

If the bridge had been taken then XXX Corps would have moved into Arnhem the Rhine would have been open and the taking of the Ruhr would be a piece of cake. The war would have been over by Christmas 1944.

PROBLEM.

The Soviets were not to cross the Oder and Weser rivers until January 1945, five months after Market Garden.

The western Allies would have taken most of Germany BEFORE the Soviets.

NO COLD WAR. NO RUSSIAN CAPTURE OF PENNEMUNDE ROCKET SCIENTISTS.

NO MASSIVE PROFITS FOR THE US ARMS INDUSTRIES.


I watched the Captain Burriss clip you posted, because I'm interested in the subject, which is vast and complex. It merely recounts a much discussed episode in that campaign, when Britain's XXX Corps slowed their advance, undermining the extraordinary heroism of the US 82nd Airborne who had just suffered catastrophic losses by undertaking a daylight river crossing under heavy fire, with the aim of urgently relieving the besieged British paratroopers further north at Arnhem. Although my understanding of the battle is limited, it was a decision that's always seemed to me to reflect badly on the British commanders who made it, just as it illustrates the immense bravery of the Americans who went across that river. For that reason I'm glad you've drawn attention to it, as it's probably not as well known about as it should be (though I imagine if the roles had been reversed we'd have heard about it endlessly). It was the subject of much recrimination at the time, and much debate amongst historians subsequently. But I've never heard it suggested that XXX Corps did this as part of a fiendish plot to foil the relief effort and prolong the war until such a time as the Russians were in a position to capture great swathes of Germany, thus enacting the cold war, etc., etc. I'm afraid I find such an idea completely absurd.

In any case, if that had been the fear, why launch the operation in the first place, or at least why strike so very far to the north, all the way to Arnhem? Part of the reason why this failed, surely, whilst most of the operation succeeded (the capture of the bridges to the south by the US 82nd and 101st Airbornes) was because it was so recklessly over-ambitious to attempt to go so far. Other factors were the rushed and inadequate preparation, because with the onset of autumn the Allies had a rapidly closing window in which to launch an airborne operation on that scale; poor intelligence in not realising that two SS Panzer divisions had been put near Arnhem, against whom lightly armed paratroopers were at a huge disadvantage; terrible communications; weather issues; the difficulties of moving a large armoured column at speed along a single road; the capture of the allied battle plan from a crashed glider; and myriad other factors.

But what Burriss and his men did was exceptional, as were the actions of the besieged paras at Arnhem, and always very humbling to hear about, and I'm glad you've drawn attention to it, even if I disagree with your other conclusions.


It only takes a few to put a spanner in the works.

Most of XXX Corps thought they were going to Arnhem.

Is it a coincidence that the Bilderberg building was owned by Prince Bernhard and the very man who halted the entire column was later the chairman for this meeting which only until recently has been admitted by the main stream media of even existing? They have been forced kicking and screaming to admit it takes place by activists. Both Cameron and Osborne were there last year in Watford and this was a week after Cameron had said in Parliament that he would not tolerate private lobbying of MPs.

If Bilderberg is harmless and innocent then why did B-Liar have the need to lie about it when asked about his attendance in Parliament?


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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2014 3:05 pm 
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roscoe wrote:
They'll be no further comment on this thread about Bilderberg, this is a thread about WWI and WWII.

roscoe wrote:
If Bilderberg is harmless and innocent then why did B-Liar have the need to lie about it when asked about his attendance in Parliament?


:lol: Poor old Roscoe, as confused as ever.

Tony Bliar's denial regarding Bilderberg is odd because he had previously declared attendence in the register of MPs' interests. Weird but hardly a great conspiracy.

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 Post subject: Re: I.G.Farben
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2014 3:20 pm 
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roscoe wrote:
But then you have your head up your arse and unable to see anything.


I can see your lies. Your problem is that I recognise them as lies and say so. The pointing and laughing at you is because I can see. What you want is for people to not see your lies or think about the stupidity of your nonsense posts.

roscoe wrote:
Do we listen to someone who admits he deliberately refuses to look at anything he can't handle or do we listen to a man who is responsible for many of the treatments for heart disease.


Nobody said that they deliberately refuse to look at anything they can't handle. You lose the debate everytime facts are involved and so you make up lies like this in a pathetic attempt to win an argument. Why not try addressing facts and not your own fantasies for once in your sad life?

The question is: Do we listen to facts or to lies? I've given you some facts (such as that the IG Farben building was actually hit by bombs and was only left standing because it was next to a prison camp); you've given us youtube clips of lies. What an earth does someone's expertise in heart disease have to do with their lies about WW2?

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 Post subject: Re: I.G.Farben
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2014 3:31 pm 
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roscoe wrote:
He explains how the leading members of I.G.Farben were arrested and tried during the Nuremberg trials and how they were released and went on to have careers in the pharmaceutical field for the world's leading drug producer - Bayer.


Wiki says Roscoe is wrong again:

Some of the people who served prison sentences but later became leaders in post war-companies include:
Hermann Schmitz, who became a member of the supervisory board for the Deutsche Bank in Berlin and honorary chairman of the supervisory board of Rheinische Stahlwerke AG [20]
Georg von Schnitzler, serving as president of the Deutsch-Ibero-Amerikanische Gesellschaft [21]
Fritz ter Meer, becoming chairman of the supervisory board of Bayer AG and a supervisory board member of several firms [22]
Otto Ambros, holding seats on supervisory boards Chemie Grünenthal (being active during the Contergan scandal), Feldmühle, and Telefunken, and working as an economic consultant in Mannheim [23]
Heinrich Bütefisch, becoming a member of the supervisory boards for Deutsche Gasolin AG, Feldmühle, and Papier- und Zellstoffwerke AG, and consulting with Ruhrchemie AG Oberhausen and subsequently joining its supervisory board.[24]
Max Ilgner, becoming the chairman of the executive board of a chemistry firm in Zug [25]
Heinrich Oster, becoming a member of the supervisory board of Gelsenberg AG.[26]


Only one of those found guilty later went to Bayer (which was actually a big chunk of IG Farben anyway).

It doesn't take long for Roscoe to cut'n'paste rubbish and link to youtube clips of nonsense. It takes much longer to sift through it and discover that it is all lies. Which is why I don't usually even bother clicking his links or thinking about his anti-semitic lunacy. Every single time that I fact-check I find that he is wrong.

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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2014 4:24 pm 
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Quote:
used by the German armed forces and also made Zyclon B which was used extensively in the Nazi Concentration Camps


for what?


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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2014 11:25 pm 
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Davinho wrote:
Quote:
used by the German armed forces and also made Zyclon B which was used extensively in the Nazi Concentration Camps


for what?


Genocide.

Quote:
* Volume 12, The Holocaust: Selected Documents in Eighteen Volumes. Introduction by Professor Henry Friedlander, Department of Judaic Studies, City University, New York. Systematic extermination of Jews in the killing centers was first accomplished by using exhaust gasses from trucks and later by an insecticide called Zyklon B. Personal property of murdered Jews was collected and utilized in various ways. Watches were distributed to the German Army, jewelry was transferred to state-owned pawn shops for sale on international and domestic markets, clothing was distributed among various segments of the population, hair of the murdered was used in stuffing mattresses and dental gold was melted down into gold bars. Documentation in this volume includes descriptions of the methods of killing, as told by extermination camp commanders and others, as well as records of the distribution of the loot taken from the murdered. Contains 19 documents of source materials, carefully chosen from the thousands preserved at the U.S. National Archives. A detailed table of contents lists and provides the source for each document.


Quote:
12) Nuremburg Document NI-9912, the Degesch Manual on how to
use Zyklon properly. I obtained both German and English
versions from:
Mendelsohn, John and Detwiler, Donald S. _The
Holocaust: Selected Documents in Eighteen Volumes._ "Volume
12: The 'Final Solution' in the Extermination Camps and the
Aftermath" (New York: Garland Publishing) c. 1982, p 137.





◦Barrington,J.H., ed. The Zyklon B Trial: Trial of Bruno Tesch and Two Others. London, 1948, and Borkin .


◦Harmon, Brian. Technical Aspects of the Holocaust: Cyanide, Zyklon-B, and Mass Murder. (See camps/auschwitz cyanide.001), 1994


◦United Nations War Crimes Commission. Law Reports of Trials of War Criminals. Vol. 1, London, 1947. See pp. 93-104
Here is the link for pdf's you can download volume 1 and read up on the trial.
http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/ ... inals.html


http://www.haguejusticeportal.net/Docs/HJJ-JJH/Vol_2(1)/Chemical_Warfare_%20as_genocide.

Quote:
“…[G]enocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group”.10


Quote:
The internationally accepted definition of “Crime against Humanity” was originally codified in the Charter of the International Military Tribunal in 1945 and appears as follows in the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court: “‘[C]rime against humanity’ means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack: (a) Murder; (b) Extermination; … (h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender … or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court; … (k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health…”13




23) _Documents on the Holocaust: Selected Sources on the
Destruction of the Jews of Germany and Austria, Poland, and
the Soviet Union_. ed. by Yitzhak Arad, Yisrael Gutman, and
Abraham Margaliot. (Jerusalem: Yad Veshem) (c) 1981, pp 358-
361

The Revolt at the Sobibor Extermination Camp
p. 356

http://www.sobibor.info/murder.html
Quote:
The proceedings of the extermination followed two scripts: for Polish Jews already aware of Sobibor's true function, their treatment from arrival to their death in the gas chambers was cruel, accompanied by shots, killing on the spot for the slightest resistance, beating and terror.

The foreign Jews not aware of their fate were threatened with deceptive care, even politeness, until the doors of the gas chamber.

The following description of the fate of a typical Dutch transport of 2,500 Jews will help you understand how millions could be killed so easily.

Excerpts from Thomas Blatt's diary describe the arrival of a Dutch transport:

"...The arriving passenger train stopped outside the camp at the small, obscure station amidst a wild forest. Inside, every available seat was taken.

Soon eight to ten cars were detached from the rest and pushed onto a sidetrack leading into the camp. The Germans and the Ukrainian guards were posted around the platform and waiting (1). At the Nazis' signal, people were ordered to alight.

After leaving the heavy luggage behind on the train platform, a column of about 500 people started towards a long barrack (31) with large gates on opposite ends. Attached to the right side of the barrack were smaller barracks (32). When they entered they were ordered to leave any handbags they still carried. The moment the barrack was empty, prisoners called "pakettentragers" (package carriers) opened doors to the adjoining barracks (32), and quickly transferred all the handbags to be sorted. The purses were emptied onto tables and the contents were thrown in the proper containers: money with money, brushes with brushes, lipsticks with lipsticks, etc. Finally, documents, pictures and other papers were taken in blankets to the incinerator.

While this was happening, the victims were led to a yard with an overhanging roof (33). There SS Scharfuehrer Herman Mitchell in a quiet, convincing voice, welcomed the Jews. He sympathetically apologized for the inconvenience of the trip and the difficulty in extending them a roof and a bed to relax in right away. First he explained, because of strict sanitary conditions, they must shower and be disinfected. Later, he assured them the able-bodied would work, get paid and live with their families until the war was won. The soothing speech of the well-mannered SS man had its effect.


The women and children brought in first, undressed and proceeded through the narrow alley between barbed wire fencing towards three connected barracks 100 meters away (45 ). There a group of prisoners, ironically called "friseurs" (barbers) by the Nazis, were waiting to cut their hair. It was done quickly with a few nervous clips of the scissors. The young girls, visibly ashamed, sometimes begged the "barbers" not to cut too short. They were certain a shower would follow. A German stood in the middle of the room with a whip in his hand, supervising and making sure the "barbers" would not speak to the victims. It was not necessary. The poor victims would not have believed them anyway. Now robbed of all their possessions, even their hair, the Nazis prepared to take their lives. The gas chambers were only four yards away. And soon they walked innocently to its open gates to be brutally packed into the gassing units (51).

SS Bauer and a Ukrainian named Emil started the engine (52) and soon a horrifying mass scream could be heard. At first it was very loud and spontaneous. About five minutes later it gradually subsided until finally a contrasting silence took over.

The next ten cars of people, by this time, were on route to the yard for the speech and surely heard the cries. But mixed with the roar of the engine and muffled by the thick walls of the gas chamber, it sounded from distance like thunder. Only the prisoners, their hearts frozen in terror, knew the truth.

Before piling the bodies on the pyres (55), the gold teeth were pulled by the "dentist" and other body cavities were searched for more possessions, all with restless speed.

Now, the victims dead, the prisoners finished sorting out the clothing. First, they removed the Star of David and checked every fold for hidden valuables. Then they packed them in lots of ten tying with string and stored them in huge warehouses (44) to be sent later. Simultaneously, the hills of private documents, diplomas, pictures, etc. were being burned in a specially built incinerator (46), removing the last traces of their existence. Thus, the destruction of a transport of Jews was completed. The people killed, the goods stored, the documents destroyed... as if, IT NEVER WAS."

Quote:
Relate to Existing Documents on the Holocaust

Many documents discussing the operation of the gas
chambers at Auschwitz exist. The testimony of Hanz Stark is
an excellent example {20}. Hanz Stark was connected with
Auschwitz's "Political Department", and was responsible for
registering new arrivals to the camp. He was also responsible
for observing executions carried out in a room next to Krema
I, initially carried out with a small caliber rifle. The
terminology used for people dispatched in this manner was
Sonderbehandlung -- special treatment in English. Prisoners
who had received "special treatment" were said "to have been
found special lodgings." Stark was quite explicit that this
meant execution.

Later on, "experimental" gassings took place in the
execution room adjoining Crematoria I. Stark was also a
witness to gassings that took place there, and his description
is quoted here (in English, typos are mine):

"As I have already mentioned, the first gassing was
carried out in the small crematoria in autumn 1941. Grabner
ordered me to go to the crematorium in order to check numbers,
just as I had had[sic] to do with the shootings. About 200-
250 Jewish men, women, and children of all ages were standing
at the crematorium. There may also have been babies there

[....] Nothing was said to the Jews. They were merely ordered
to enter the gas chamber, the door of which was open. While the
Jews were going into the room, medical orderlies prepared for
the gassing. Earth had been piled up against one of the external
walls of the gassing room so that the medical orderlies could get
onto the roof of the room. After all the Jews were in the chamber,
the door was bolted and the medical orderlies poured Zyklon-B
through the openings..."

And as he later describes in a gassing he participated in
personally:

" As the Zyklon-B - as already mentioned - was in granular
form, it trickled down over the people as it was being poured
in. They then started to cry out terribly for they now knew
what was happening to them [...] After a few minutes there was
silence. After some time had passed, it may have been ten to
fifteen minutes, the gas chamber was opened. The dead lay
higgeldy piggeldy all over the place. It was a dreadful
sight."

Note that these gassings took place at Krema I, a much
smaller structure than the homicidal gas chambers constructed
at the Birkenau complex (Krema II, III, IV, V). This explains
why the chamber had a much smaller capacity, and earth had to
be piled up along side the room to allow access to the roof.
Other than that, the process is similar to the one I described
in the "hypothetical gassing" section.

The testimony of Auschwitz camp commandant Rudolf Ho"ss
is also very useful {21}. With regards to the gassing
process, he describes both gassings in the large chambers in
the Birkenau complex and ones carried out in the makeshift
Bunkers I and II. Bunkers I and II were used while the major
extermination facilities were under construction, and had a
capacity of about 200-300 people at once. The process in the
bunkers was similar to that in Krema I (see above). The
extermination chambers was somewhat different, as Ho"ss
mentions that they where equipped with an electric ventilation
system to quickly ventilate the rooms, and an electric lift to
quickly transport bodies to the Krema ovens for incineration.
Here the gas chambers were located underground, which allowed
easy access for pouring Zyklon-B into the chambers.

Aerial photographs of the camps taken by allied
reconnaissance planes during the war corroborate Ho"ss
testimony, particularly with regards to the architecture of
the underground gas chamber in Krema II {22}.

A particularly gruesome testimony is provided by former
camp inmate Marie-Claude Vaillant-Couturier {23}:

Extract from evidence given at the Nuremburg Trials on the
Auschwitz Extermination Camp:
---------------------------------

M. DUBOST: Did you actually see the "selection" when
transports arrived?

VAILLANT-COURIER: Yes, because when we were working in the
Sewing Block in 1944, the block in which we lived was situated
just opposite the place where the trains arrived. The whole
process had been improved: Instead of carrying out the
"selection" where the trains arrived, a siding took the
carriages practically to the gas chamber, and the train
stopped about 100m from the gas chamber. That was right in
front of our block ..

[...]
They were taken to a red brick building with a sign that
said Baths. There they were told to get undressed and given a
towel before they were taken to the so called shower room.
Later, at the time of the large transports from Hungary, there
was no time left for any degree of concealment. They were
undressed brutally. I know all these particulars because I
was acquainted with a little Jewess from France .... when I
got to know her she worked on undressing the small children
before they were taken into the gas chamber.

After all the people were undressed they were taken into a
room that looked like a shower room, and the capsules were
thrown down into the room through a hole in the ceiling. an
SS man observed the effect through a spy-hole. After about 5-7
minutes, when the gas had done its job, he gave a signal for
opening the doors. Men with gas masks, these were prisoners
too, came in and took the bodies out. They told us that the
prisoners must have suffered before they died, because they
clung together in bunches like grapes so that it was difficult
to separate them....
------

There are also documents discussing exactly how many
people could be killed, and how many bodies could be cremated
in a given day. For example, Ho"ss mentions that a maximum
number of 10,000 people could be gassed in a given day (note
that this is the number _gassed_, not cremated.) A letter sent
to Berlin, addressed to SS General Kammler mentions that the
total number of bodies that could be processed in one day as
4,756 {24}. Note that this figure includes cremation of the
bodies as well as gassing. Based on this document, a total of
2.6 million people could be murdered and their corpses
disposed of in just one and one half years (548 days). This
is hardly a poor generalization, as the major extermination
facilities at Auschwitz went on line in late 1942 (Krema II
and III) and mid 1943 (Krema IV and V) {25}.

Based on the figures in the letter, my numbers generated
from the "hypothetical gassing" may err on the side of
caution. Note that I am not claiming that 2.5 million plus
were killed at Auschwitz, as I do not know the exact figure.
It should be self evident that the murder of about 1 to 2
million people in these camps (or even more) was not
only feasible, it was well documented. There are many more
volumes of documents on the Holocaust, and one need merely
search their local library to find many volumes of them.

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 Post subject: Re: I.G.Farben
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2014 1:30 am 
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Robert N wrote:
roscoe wrote:
He explains how the leading members of I.G.Farben were arrested and tried during the Nuremberg trials and how they were released and went on to have careers in the pharmaceutical field for the world's leading drug producer - Bayer.


Wiki says Roscoe is wrong again:

Some of the people who served prison sentences but later became leaders in post war-companies include:
Hermann Schmitz, who became a member of the supervisory board for the Deutsche Bank in Berlin and honorary chairman of the supervisory board of Rheinische Stahlwerke AG [20]
Georg von Schnitzler, serving as president of the Deutsch-Ibero-Amerikanische Gesellschaft [21]
Fritz ter Meer, becoming chairman of the supervisory board of Bayer AG and a supervisory board member of several firms [22]
Otto Ambros, holding seats on supervisory boards Chemie Grünenthal (being active during the Contergan scandal), Feldmühle, and Telefunken, and working as an economic consultant in Mannheim [23]
Heinrich Bütefisch, becoming a member of the supervisory boards for Deutsche Gasolin AG, Feldmühle, and Papier- und Zellstoffwerke AG, and consulting with Ruhrchemie AG Oberhausen and subsequently joining its supervisory board.[24]
Max Ilgner, becoming the chairman of the executive board of a chemistry firm in Zug [25]
Heinrich Oster, becoming a member of the supervisory board of Gelsenberg AG.[26]


Only one of those found guilty later went to Bayer (which was actually a big chunk of IG Farben anyway).

It doesn't take long for Roscoe to cut'n'paste rubbish and link to youtube clips of nonsense. It takes much longer to sift through it and discover that it is all lies. Which is why I don't usually even bother clicking his links or thinking about his anti-semitic lunacy. Every single time that I fact-check I find that he is wrong.


Of course he's bloody wrong. Anyone stupid enough to gather information from his idiotic links deserve the viruses and cookies they invariably download.

It takes less then 10secs to go to the archives of the holocaust to provide tangible first hand evidence to deride his neo-Nazi delusions but that leads us to ponder why he's mentioning the Ruskies at this time.

It couldn't possibly be because he embarrassed himself so thoroughly over the summer games in London that he's surreptitiously finding a way to attack the Ruskies over Sochi?

Although it is quite amusing how someone can possibly think they can attack the Ruskies and get away with it, especially a right-wing nutcase with known affiliations, not a smart idea to poke the great bear at this time I would say.

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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2014 9:47 am 
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Quote:
Genocide.



it was a rhetorical question rain, based on what roscoe believes


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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2014 12:23 pm 
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rain wrote:
..Systematic extermination of Jews in the killing centers... murdered.... The proceedings of the extermination ....... the victims were led to a yard with...


and so on, and so on.........

I heared it all of the 60 years, in my life and I am tired of it.

What about the Cathars in Montsegur, the Indians and all the other victims in the world, and at least : What about the children in Vietnam..(you call them "gooks")?

Everybody has his own holocaust, which he should remember befor he is pointing his finger to other people.

I am not a Nazi or Kraut or something like that : I am a man and I can't hear it any longer.

The church says : You are a sinner, you killed the son of your god.
The world says : You are a sinner, you killed the jews.

So what do they want : That I kill myself ?

No, I say to them : Look what you did, and let me go.

:evil: Hans

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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2014 1:16 pm 
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Quote:
What about the Cathars in Montsegur, the Indians and all the other victims in the world, and at least : What about the children in Vietnam..(you call them "gooks")?


this thread wasn't about that and I don't see why you need to make the comparison

and then have to declare this

Quote:
I am not a Nazi or Kraut or something like that


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 Post subject: Re: I.G.Farben
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2014 1:17 pm 
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rain wrote:
Of course he's bloody wrong. Anyone stupid enough to gather information from his idiotic links deserve the viruses and cookies they invariably download.

It takes less then 10secs to go to the archives of the holocaust to provide tangible first hand evidence to deride his neo-Nazi delusions but that leads us to ponder why he's mentioning the Ruskies at this time.


:lol: You are turning into a skeptic!

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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2014 9:38 pm 
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Davinho wrote:
Quote:
What about the Cathars in Montsegur, the Indians and all the other victims in the world, and at least : What about the children in Vietnam..(you call them "gooks")?


this thread wasn't about that and I don't see why you need to make the comparison

and then have to declare this

Quote:
I am not a Nazi or Kraut or something like that


Take a wild guess as to who he's trying to attack, Davinho, all the while defending Roscoe's Nazi beliefs.
This forum has had a bad reputation for extreme right wing ideologies for years now, nobody should be surprised that the first responder on the scene to defend Roscoe was Hans Pepper the Hun. Most of the incoherent, irrelevant babble he exudes has been about Nazi ideology - i.e. defending Aryan beliefs and attacking The Church for awhile.
He's has a classic case of Nazi sympathiser syndrome, unable to fully expose his sympathies, and always hiding behind the nutcase, yet taking pot shots with his little straw and pea operation.
Ahhhh the Pathos. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: I.G.Farben
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2014 10:06 pm 
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Robert N wrote:
rain wrote:
Of course he's bloody wrong. Anyone stupid enough to gather information from his idiotic links deserve the viruses and cookies they invariably download.

It takes less then 10secs to go to the archives of the holocaust to provide tangible first hand evidence to deride his neo-Nazi delusions but that leads us to ponder why he's mentioning the Ruskies at this time.


:lol: You are turning into a skeptic!


Depends on your definition of a skeptic, am I a skeptic in that I still believe in Honour, dignity and compassion for Human life?

The truth is that is what Roscoe and Hans try to negate when they try to destroy the sacrificies great men and woman made so we could live in free and democratic societies.

They do this by denying the historical truth of war and the MILLIONS of people that died and suffered so the world could wake up to it's humanity.

What vile creatures decide to lie and deny the horrific deaths that took place as if it's some kind of joke. I believe it takes a pocket of Evil to that.

So again I ask, if I believe it's evil to do what they do, does that really make me a skeptic, or just simply a conscionable Human?

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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014 7:41 am 
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rain,

I am against everybody, who has produced victims. I am a humanist.

The church produced the most victims in the history. Millions of millions.
And you love them ? And pray to them ?

I hate Nazis,... marching idiots - not my stuff.
I hate war.
And I hate people, who let "agent orange" RAIN on the heads of innocent man.
What about atomic bombs, napalm, and all that shit ?
What about the indians and the slaves ?

No victims at all ?

All I want to say is : Who is pointing with his fingers to other man, should have a look, what he did by himself. Put your hand on your own nose befor you will tell others what is right or not.
Your church says : "..Who is free of sin, will take the first stone.." Are you ?

So please do not teach me humanity.

And notice : I have nothing to do with roscoes theories. I do not know anything about it.

I am that, what you call a Hippie in the sixties. Have you ever seen a Nazi-Hippie ? I do not. The Nazis would have killed all the hippies. And other countries in the west do not like them also, because they began to fight against the vietnam war. Then I began to fight against Atomic plants in the 70's and against US-Rockets in Germany.
All these things done by a Nazi ? HM.... Could not be.
Nazis will make war, use chemical weapons, hold slaves and kill innocent people.

Do you know what I mean ?

regards Hans

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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014 8:04 am 
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Fuck off Hans, you called me a Gook, I don't have time for shits like you, go crawl back-up Roscoe's Nazi behind where you came from.

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