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 Post subject: Passport to Magonia
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2010 1:58 am 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magonia_(mythology)

Magonia is the name of the cloud realm whence felonious aerial sailors were said to have come from in the treatise on weather magic composed by Carolingian bishop Agobard of Lyon in 815.
The inhabitants of this realm, the Magonians were said to travel the skies in "cloud ships" (storm clouds) and worked with Frankish tempestarii, "tempest-raisers" or weather-magi, to steal grain from the fields during magically raised storms.

However, in his writings against popular superstitions, Agobard denounced the belief in witchcraft and the ascription of tempests to magic.

Due to its association with entities coming from the sky, the name Magonia inspired UFO related material, see Magonia (magazine).

[snip]

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http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bb/vallee.htm

INTERVIEW WITH JACQUES VALLEE

UFOs remain the chief enigma of our time. No matter what we read, no matter what our own experiences with the phenomena, the strangeness and absurdity of the reports keep us wondering just what is really going on. For some, the question is of the utmost importance, for others it is treated as an entertaining oddity.

For those of us who have had some kind of encounter with UFOs, the experience will continue to be a critical question mark behind our taken-for-granted assumptions about the world. We may never find out what they are, but we certainly appreciate any reasonable suggestions as to their ultimate nature

In Brazil there was a whole variety of objects, but the ones that emitted these beams [which injured human observers] were classic in terms of shape. They were boxy, rectangular objects [Interstitial Volvos, no doubt; "They're boxy but they're safe." -B:.B:.] that either didn't make a noise or made nothing more than a hum, like the noise a refrigerator makes. They came over at night, and the beam was a light that not only burned them but pinned them down.

When we asked people in Brazil about the phenomenon, we discovered that they didn't see it as something that comes from another planet, but something that comes from another spiritual plane. That's the way they put it, but they offered no further explanation than that. They seemed to be just as puzzled by it as a scientist would be.

[...]

Usually there is a consensus on the major aspects of the physical parameters of it [the abduction experience], but people can disagree on, for example, when there is interaction with entities. Different people may be perceiving different things.

There is a social, mythological aspect to it also, and that can be very tricky. I think it's important to bring this out so that people can be alerted to it, especially since the publication of "Communion."

There was a major marketing effort behind Communion which proved to be very successful. True, it's a powerful book, but Communion has also touched people who have never even read it because it also has a powerful cover. That face on the cover has become our society's standard for what aliens are "supposed to look like." This standard has reached the point where any witness that doesn't report something that looks like the cover of Communion is dismissed as a hoaxer. People who see things that don't look like the cover tend not to be believed by UFOlogists. Those sightings are not followed up, and they don't go into the database. So, scientific analysis tends to retrieve more and more patterns that correspond to those patterns that we expect in the first place.

There's a self-fulfilling prophecy involved which is very tricky.

[...]

I studied Greek in school, and of course, the Greeks accepted a mythological universe in which all of that [giants, small people and so forth] was possible. They believed in multiple powers, some of which were called "gods." They also accepted other kinds of spirits. I've spent much time reading the available esoteric literature, especially the medieval literature, where these entities are called "elementals" and thought to be the agents of much of the physical phenomenon. Now, of course, we have physical laws that explain much of the phenomena so the little beings are dismissed out of hand, but there is a body of folklore of people who have actually seen those beings.

I think there is an obvious parallel with people describing UFO entities today.

I think that the basic breakthrough for me is to understand that the UFO phenomenon is not a system. If it was a system, we could probably understand it. We're very good at analyzing systems whether they're social systems, hardware systems, or physical systems. I think we're not getting anywhere because we need to look at a phenomena not as a system but as a meta-system.

In other words, it's a system that generates systems. To offer a simple analogy, let's suppose that we were going to study a civilization that we knew very little about. So, we get there on Saturday night and find these crowds coming out of certain buildings. So, we ask these people, "What did you do there?" And they say, "Oh, it was great. We saw 'Bambi'." Well, we write that down and note that it is consistent because, basically, they all describe the same thing.

Then we go across the street and there's another crowd coming out of another similarly constructed building, and we ask them, "What did you see?" And they say, "Oh, it was great. We saw this character called 'Rambo'." This information is also consistent, but it's completely different from what the people across the street report

So, the next step is to go inside the buildings to check the reports for ourselves. But all we see is a blank wall and rows of chairs facing that blank wall. The obvious theory is a psychological theory -- these people like to get together and their consciousness creates myths out of their own fantasies. Some people like to see Bambi, others like to see Rambo, but we assume there is no physical reality for either. We would be completely wrong in that assumption, but it would be a logical theory to develop.

People do exactly the same thing about UFOs. They say, "It's mythology. It rose out of the unconscious of the people at a certain time. At certain times they like to see the Blessed Virgin Mary; at certain times they like to see fairies, and at certain times they like to see spacecraft.

Now, if you go to the movies while the movie is playing, it' suddenly different because now it is a sensory experience -- you see it; you react! It speeds up your heart, and does all kinds of physiological things to you. But does it mean that Bambi exists? Of course not. There is a basic flaw in that level of analysis, and I think that's a pitfall in which the whole of UFOlogy, especially American UFOlogy, has fallen. There is only a first-level reading.

I think that's happening with the abduction research being done right now. When they hypnotize these witnesses, and they regress them to the experience, what they get is what was on the blank screen. I don't think they get the reality.

Instead of looking at the screen, what I want to do is to turn around and look the other way. When we look the other way what we see is a little hole at the top of the wall with some light coming out. That's where I want to go. I want to steal the key to the projectionist's booth, and then, when everybody has gone home, I want to break in. And what you find there is a meta-system.

It's a system of wheels that can generate anything you want -- Bambi, Rambo, "Close Encounters"... That's my next project; I would like to play with the projector. One way to do that would be to interfere with the phenomenon itself. I think if you did that you would force it to react...If it's a control system, then there is a feedback loop somewhere. Once you find the feedback loop then you can screw around with it.

[...]
[snip]

I feel that I could go before a committee of scientists and convince them that there is overwhelming evidence that the UFO phenomena exists and that it is an unrecognized, unexplained phenomenon for science, but something that I think I could prove. My personal contention is that the phenomenon is the result of an intelligence, that it is a technology directed by an intelligence, and that this intelligence is capable of manipulating space and time in ways that we don't understand. I could convince a committee of my peers that the phenomenon is real, that it is physical, and that we don't understand it. I could not convince them that my speculation is correct; there may be alternative speculations. The essential conclusion I'm tending to is that the origin of the phenomenon of the intelligence is not necessarily extraterrestrial

I think it's an opportunity to learn something very fundamental about the universe because, not only is the phenomenon or technology capable of manipulating space and time in ways that we don't understand, it's manipulating the psychic environment of the witness.

I tried to introduce that idea when I wrote "Invisible College." At that time, the UFO community was not ready for it. The New Age and the parapsychology communities interpreted my conclusion to mean that UFOs are devas from the dream world -- that they are not physical, or that the physical aspect is unimportant. In truth, I think we are dealing with something that is both technological and psychic, and seems to be able to manipulate other dimensions.

This is neither wishful thinking nor personal speculation on my part. It's a conclusion that comes from interviewing critical witnesses, and then listening to what they have to say. And what they have to say is not that they've seen space craft coming down from the sky and then returning to the sky.

More often, what they have reported is that they have seen something appear on the spot, take on a physical shape, sometimes even changing shape, and then disappear, sometimes faster than the eye can trace. On occasion, it will disappear in a closed space by either becoming transparent and then vanishing or by concentrating into a single point. An example that's often given is like turning off a television set; the image goes "zoom!" to a single point.

I don't have a good explanation for the question of why the technology seems to appear in a form that uses images from our own unconscious. I'd be kidding if I said that I understand that. There are cases of repeated observations where the phenomenon begins by being amorphous and then starts matching the expectations of the witnesses.

There are two ways to deal intellectually with that: One is to say it's a phenomenon of the brain which is very good at reading recognizable images in amorphous things like clouds and ink blots. So, perhaps the witnesses are getting used to this phenomenon and are starting to read things into it. But that's not the only explanation.

It may be that the phenomenon itself is using our reactions to it in order to turn into something that we expect or understand. We may be carrying a matrix of imagery that it somehow picks up. A good example of that is Fatima. The apparitions witnessed at Fatima did not start in 1917. They started two years before. Some of the same kids were involved, and there were also other witnesses. What they saw was a globe of light.

Then they saw a globe of light with some type of being inside. Then they started calling the being an angel, and then the angel stated communicating with them and gave them a prayer. It developed in stages, and culminated in 1917, but even then the virgin Mary wasn't seen by everyone who was present

[snip]

We know more today than we did five years ago about the manifestations of the phenomenon. You could say that, if it's a superior type of consciousness we're dealing with, that consciousness is engaging us in certain games.

They can throw whatever phenomena they want at us, and we will not be the wiser. So, it's like being in school and having somebody give you tests all day long; you try to do the best you can. That's all I can do. And I have to believe there is a way to graduate from this. How? That depends on the kind of control system we are operating within.

There are two kinds of control systems. There are control systems that are open, like a university, where you take tests for what seems to be a long time, but eventually you graduate, and go out into the real world a little bit better equipped to deal with it.

Then there are closed systems like jails. If I was going to build a control system, it would be an open control system because I don't think I would derive much pleasure out of running a jail. If I assume the UFO phenomena represents some kind of consciousness out there, then I would also assume it would be dealing in terms of an open system. That assumption may be wrong. Maybe this a jail, and there is no hope. But I'm going with the assumption that if we respond to these tests, we will learn something. There is a feeling that I get in the course of my investigations of being in the presence of a form of consciousness that is truly remarkable.

That consciousness has a great sense of absurdity, and also a great sense of humor. The bottom line is that I feel that I've learned something out of this whole exercise, and as long as I'm continuing to learn something I'm going to continue to do it.

Brother Jacques at Crowleymas

As told by Frater Robert Anton Wilson; Holy Discordian, OTO Initiate and CAW Water Brother in his Outstanding Masterpiece of Speculative Illumination "Cosmic Trigger." Recalling Crowleymas (October 12) 1974, Brother Wilson stated:
...And then Jacques Vallee arrived.

I had wanted to talk to Doctor Vallee for several months now and I immediately kidnapped him into a room which the other partygoers were not informed about. On the way, we spotted Hymenaeus Alpha (Grady McMurty), Caliph of the Ordo Templi Orientis, and his wife, Phylis.

The Skeptic had heard Jacques Vallee talk at a conference on Science and Spirit, sponsored by the Theosophical Society, earlier in the year. He had taken a new approach to the UFO mystery and was systematically feeding all the reports of extraterrestrial contacts into a giant computer. The computer was programmed to look for various possible repeated patterns. Jacques said that the evidence emerging suggested to him that the UFOs weren't extraterrestrial at all, but that they seemed to be intelligent systems intent on convincing us they were extraterrestrial.

[Indeed, even as our Dear Brother Terence McKenna hath said, "We are part of a symbiotic relationship with something which disguises itself as an extraterrestrial invasion so as not to alarm us." -B:.B:.]

Now the Skeptic started pumping Jacques about his evidence that they weren't extraterrestrial. He started to explain that, analyzing the reports chronologically, it appeared that They (whoever or whatever they are) always strive to give the impression that they are something the society they are visiting can understand. In medieval sightings, he said, they called themselves angels; in the great 1902 flap in several states, one of the craft spoke to a West Virginia farmer and said they were an airship invented and flown from Kansas; in 1940s-1950s sightings, they often said they were from Venus; since Venus has been examined and seems incapable of supporting life, they now say they are from another star-system in this galaxy.
"Where do you think they come from?" I asked.
Doctor Vallee gave the Gallic form of the classic scientific Not-Speculating-Beyond-The-Data head-shake.
"I can theorize, and theorize, endlessly," he said, "but is it not better to just study the data more deeply and look for clues?"

"You must have some personal hunch," I insisted.

He gave in gracefully. "They relate to space-time in ways for which we have, at present, no concepts," he said. "They cannot explain to us because we are not ready to understand."

[snip]

"The outstanding quality of UFO contactees," Jacques Vallee said at this point, "was incoherence. I now have grave reservations about all physical details they supply," he said.

"They are like people after an auto accident. All they know is that something very serious has happened to them." Only the fact that so many cases involve other witnesses, who see something in the sky before the "contactee" has his/her strange experience, justifies the assumption that what happens is more than "subjective."

"Largely," Doctor Vallee summarized, "they come out of it with a new perspective on humanity. A religious perspective, in general terms. But all the details are contradictory and confusing." He regarded green men, purple giant men, physical craft with windows in them, etc., as falling into the category psychologists call "substitute memory," always provided by the ingenious brain when the actual experience is too shocking to be classified.

[snip]

Tom, who had been a witch for five years and hadn't raised his hand when asked for contactee testimony, said that the Higher Intelligences are imbedded in our language and numbers, as the Cabalists think, and have no other kind of existence. He added that every time he tried to explain this he saw that people thought he was going schizophrenic and he began to fear that they might be right, so he preferred not to talk about it at all. Tom-who is a computer programmer by profession, a witch only by religion-later added a bit to this, saying that all that exists is information and coding; we only imagine we have bodies and live in space-time dimensions.

[snip]

(A few days later, in discussion with the former Vacaville prison psychologist, Dr. Wesley Hiler, I asked him what he really thought of Dr. Leary's extraterrestrial contacts. Specifically, since he didn't regard Leary as crazy or hallucinating, what was happening when Leary thought he was receiving extraterrestrial communications?

"Every man and woman who reaches the higher levels of spiritual and intellectual development," Dr. Hiler said calmly, "feels the presence of a Higher Intelligence. Our theories are all unproven. Socrates called it his daemon. Others call it gods or angels. Leary calls it extraterrestrial. Maybe it's just another part of our brain, a part we usually don't use. Who knows?")

[snip]

"I'll tell you what I think," Grady said. "There's war in Heaven. The Higher Intelligences, whoever they are, aren't all playing on the same team. Some of them are trying to encourage our evolution to higher levels, and some of them want to keep us stuck just where we are."

[snip]

On my crazier days, I suspect Tom may be very close to being right.

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PostPosted: 15 Oct 2010 2:26 am 
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http://www.wunderkabinett.co.uk/emporiu ... opic=235.0

John Keel and Ultraterrestrials

I finished the Mothman Prophecies a few weeks ago. I must say it seemed remarkably plausible, until I did a reality check and realised that it doesn't, really. However, I find the idea of Fairies, Ghosts, UFOs, Bird-men, Strange phone calls etc being caused by the same forces very appealing - there are so many high strangeness cases in which all these things happen at the same time, and reports are prone to fashion but similar in many other respects. I don't find it necessarily follows to then go and create another kind of entity to blame all of this stuff on - could it not just be humans in some unknown way? That would certainly take the middleman out. However, in his much later afterword, Keel mentions that his theories advanced after that book (right up to the point of demonic forces) - which other books are recommended in order to get a fuller understanding of his theories? I don't think any of the others are in print but I should be able to search them out.

What are other peoples opinions of his theories? When I was describing the ultraterrestrials in the book, a friend who is Muslim said "That sounds very much like Djinn" - from what superficial knowledge I have about the idea of Djinn I am inclined to agree, but would anyone more learned on the subject like to discuss?

James

[snip]

Father Shandor

The Mothman Prophecies seems to dance the edge of the Ultra Terrestrial thesis, that the manifestations are from a parallel, but interdependent, strand of life. The concept is explored in such disparate place as the works of H.P. Lovecraft, and the books of Charles Fort, who coined the phrase 'We are property'. The more one wanders along the pat of the UT idea, the more meaningful that small phrase becomes.

One of the best treatments of the subject I have encountered is in the book 'The Dark Gods' by Anthony Roberts and Geoff Gilbertson. It covers and compares many disparate concepts, but one of the most striking parallels is the similarity between 'UFO abductions' and the old legends of being taken by the Fey Folk, where there is lost time, strange marks and bruising, night paralysis and supressed memories of being molested by ill defined beings. There is also a discussion of the Mothman in terms of the UT hypothesis.

The foreword by Colin Wilson dates the book somewhat, but the rest is still relevant in Fortean thought.

[snip]

http://www.ufomystic.com/2009/07/06/joh ... 1930-2009/

Keel first challenged the extraterrestrial hyposthesis with his idea of the “superspectrum,” which theorized that UFOs were controlled by intelligences that moved freely between wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum, appearing and disappearing from the infrared and the ultraviolet. Building on the ideas of little-known researchers like Meade Layne and Trevor Constable, he also proposed the theory (and provided ample evidence for this) that UFO entities were not from other planets, but were most likely native intelligences that had been involved with mankind throughout history and prehistory, and perhaps did not have our best interests in mind. These ideas were heresy to the ufological partyline at the time, and continue to be, which is a testament to their originality and implications.

In 1975, Keel rocked the paranormal community with the publication of The Mothman Prophecies, which was his take on the strange events leading up to the Silver Bridge disaster in Point Pleasant, West Virginia on December 15, 1967. In 1966, Keel began investigating reports of a frightening creature in the area around the town. Dubbed “Mothman,” the entity appeared as a headless human form sporting large wings and glowing red “eyes” in the chest area. Mothman did not fly like any known bird, bat or insect, swooping down on unsuspecting motorists and teenagers, and taking off from the ground vertically without moving its “wings” before keeping pace with fleeing cars and disappearing.

Keel documented other weird goings-on in Point Pleasant for nearly two years, including poltergeist phenomena, strange visions, doppelgangers of Keel himself and a scary character who called himself Indrid Cold. Critics claimed that he took storytelling liberties in The Mothman Prophecies, changing events and timelines to suit his narrative, but the essential message of the book still rings true. As Keel stated in the text, “Once you have established a belief, the phenomenon adjusts its manifestations to support that belief and thereby escalate it.” This hypothesis has been tested numerous times since in other UFO “flap” areas, (such as events around the Dulce, New Mexico area in the late 1970s and the more recent Stephenville case) and continues to hold its own.

[snip]

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 Post subject: Re: Passport to Magonia
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2010 3:57 am 
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seeker it is a interesting isn't it

Here is Edgar Mitchell Apollo XIV
talks about ET Visitation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8XaHw-RO0c

as well as Buzz Aldrin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpfvhdmhQy4
and then the Monolith on Mars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDIXvpjnRws

Cooper
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvPR8T1o3Dc
Michio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pw13F7ahjY

there are Governors Congressmen Generals and Senior Military men

the Vatican talks about the Alien being our brother

and now astrophysicist Hawkings said the mathematical probability that life exists is there

when people hear these educated high ranking leaders talking about this
it makes one wonder doesn't it :idea:

I just keep an open mind and I am also wondering after all this time
why now these guys are coming out
Puzzling mysteries

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 Post subject: Re: Passport to Magonia
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2010 12:57 pm 
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Well, Vallee and Keel's "ultra terrestrial" hypothesis is usually taken to suggest they believe UFO's originate from other dimensions, passing through "windows" or portals between dimensions often in the same areas over and over again.

However, Keel at other points seemed to endorse Ivan T. Sanderson's theory that they are "here" all the time (maybe even from an undersea origin), just not visible because they normally occupy invisible ranges of the electromagnetic spectrum (superspectrum).

At other points, he seemed closer to Patrick Harpur's model of them being "daimonic," i.e. like tulpas, or manifested mind-forms.

The origin theory is debatable; what I find interesting is they both noticed that stories of UFO encounters parallel many earlier forms of folklore. There was the Great Airship Wave of 1896-7 (and a second one in 1909-13) and the people who encountered these mystery airships usually found them to be operated by "inventors" from foreign lands, not "aliens". UFO abductions seem to resemble earlier stories of fairy kidnapping. And a lot of earlier religious phenomena (like Fatima's miracle) have properties that today might make people call them "UFO sightings". For certain, people interpret these events/phenomena by their cultural paradigms. But Keel and Vallee went further and suggested the "phenomenon" might even adapt and change to meet or even mold the expectations of percipients. And that this functions as a kind of control system. Where I guess they might differ is Vallee seemed to think that control system was benevolent and evolutionary, whereas Keel thought it might be manipulative and malevolent -- that we live in a "disneyland of the gods," as their puppets, constantly jerked around by the "great phonograph in the sky" stuck in the same broken groove of apocalypse. Of course, if Mr. Grady above is right, maybe it's a continuum of both.

Point is, they both made some great arguments against the ETH (ET hypothesis). And against what many call the "nuts and bolts" school of UFOlogy, which isn't interested in many ways about the folkloric background of all this. (Thomas Bullard writes some great stuff in this area). That is really the "meat and potatoes" of Magonia Magazine.

Dunno, lov, we may be being visited by alien astronauts. We are discovering more exoplanets. But the speed of light is an insurmountable barrier. Vallee discusses it and suggests wormholes may be the only way they could get "here" from "there". I just think it's possible that Keel & Vallee are right - alien astronauts is the modern paradigm by which we perceive - or shape - a phenomenon that has been interacting with human beings - for unknown reasons - for a long period of time. And maybe it has as much to do with inner space as outer.

I have always been interested in UFOs. But I long had my doubts about peoples' theories about them, both skeptical and "non".

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 Post subject: Re: Passport to Magonia
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2010 4:40 pm 
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well when you get into the string theory
it gets into parallel universes and that they touch

so yes they could be inter dimensional beings ...see the word Unidentified Object
leaves this wide open for debate

Seeker
Quote:
And a lot of earlier religious phenomena (like Fatima's miracle) have properties that today might make people call them "UFO sightings".


Yes Fatima has some speculating it was a UFO occurrence....
and when I read the encounter with Moses ...that reads like a possible UFO encounter with the ark of the covenant
as a communication device

The Egyptian culture is amazing to see the stone carvings from that time period just awes me
They knew how to use the passive energies of the Earth
through water stone sun and Earth energies

we only use fire combustible energies ...and that aggressive energy ...it is causing imbalance
Here is something many people haven't heard about

here is one for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVaJrK0XueE
Now why would Nixon play such a trick ...Tricky Dick does it again

Nasa destroys Moon tapes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLaUuxDIRkw

Angel hair or siliceous cotton is a substance said to be dispersed from UFOs as they fly overhead. It has been described as being like a cobweb or a jelly. It has also been reported at sightings of the Virgin Mary.
Angel hair was reported at the Miracle at Fatima on the 13th of September and October 1917
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_hair_%28UFO%29

I'm with you
I'm not sure what is going on ...is it spiritual,psychological, UFO or a unknown phenomenon
I do know and have been documenting a step by step process by the government and media in bringing our consciousness
to the realization that life on other planets can exist ....that earth is NOT unique

the next step will be if life exists on other planets than why do we suppose that we are the superior ones

Oh that is right because God told us we were :roll:
I see man being really smart a few times ....and being really dumb most of the time....this includes women too :lol: :lol: :lol:

from what I see this is a massive public relations campaign to prepare us for Disclosure
the Christian Right are going to go Bonkers when this hits

Heck they are still in the mode the Bible is the factual creation of the world ...time frame
Bush's government had the geologists at the Grand Canyon odered not to tell people how old it was
because it conflicted with the Bible.

:shock: I don't know Steve can you feel my frustration ....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Scientifically people are going to be blown away with the idea there is life on other planets
because a decade ago we were told we were the only ones
Nobody else could live on those desolate places...We were told there was no water on the moon at all
sorry for the Rant :lol: :lol: :lol:



now here is the scary part ...what if this UFO phenomenon is being used and manipulated by a very elite powerful group
how is the world going to handle being lied to?

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 Post subject: Re: Passport to Magonia
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2010 5:15 pm 
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Quote:
we only use fire combustible energies ...and that aggressive energy ...it is causing imbalance


the towers and electrical/telecommunications poles and damns...all of these disrupt the natural flow of the magnetic currents of earth...which in turns does the same thing to the currents on the sun. WE are causing the sun problems, not the other way around.

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 Post subject: Re: Passport to Magonia
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2010 5:20 pm 
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Quote:
What are other peoples opinions of his theories?


personally i believe than in earlier times Mothman would have been known as Sosthenios the benevolent winged demon...aka the archangel Michael.


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 Post subject: Re: Passport to Magonia
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2010 5:42 pm 
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Scythian artifact (??B.C.)

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 Post subject: Re: Passport to Magonia
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2010 6:34 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
Quote:
What are other peoples opinions of his theories?


personally i believe than in earlier times Mothman would have been known as Sosthenios the benevolent winged demon...aka the archangel Michael.


I read the Mothman Prophecies. "He" didn't seem to act so benevolently, mostly terrifying the crap out of people. And neither did Indrid Cold, or most of the other "entities" Keel encountered.

They gave him prophecies about the future - but as he emphasizes, usually with deliberate misdirection - almost as if they didn't want him to prevent the Silver Bridge disaster (by warning him there would be a TNT explosion on the Ohio river instead). Not so benevolent either.

Loren Coleman once told me he considered Keel a "demonologist". But certainly he makes it seem like whatever he was dealing with, terrestrial, extra-terrestrial, or ultra-, it wasn't benevolent; it was manipulative, maybe not "evil" but not with interests coinciding with our own.

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 Post subject: Re: Passport to Magonia
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2010 6:47 pm 
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lovuian wrote:
Heck they are still in the mode the Bible is the factual creation of the world ...time frame
Bush's government had the geologists at the Grand Canyon odered not to tell people how old it was
because it conflicted with the Bible.

:shock: I don't know Steve can you feel my frustration ....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Well, believing the Bible is a scientific factual description of the universe is foolish. But so are any number of UFO cults, like Unarius. Vallee warns about this in Messengers of Deception.

Anyway, my own personal theory is that a lot of UFO "light in the sky" sightings may be Earthlights, ball lightning, or other causes (besides the usual misidentifications of Venus, swamp gas, etc.) The structured vehicle sightings - some may be "black projects" (see below). Those that involve so-called "CE3" or "CE4" -- well, there I lean toward Vallee's theories.

Quote:
now here is the scary part ...what if this UFO phenomenon is being used and manipulated by a very elite powerful group
how is the world going to handle being lied to?


That's something Vallee deals with Messengers, above (nonfiction) ... and also explores in his novels, Fastwalker, Alintel, and Strategem.

http://www.jacquesvallee.net/fastwalker.html
http://www.jacquesvallee.net/alintel.html
http://www.jacquesvallee.net/stratagem.html

Vallee suspects that the government may be faking a number of UFO sightings/encounters, either to hide other black projects, or possibly just to test them out as psychological warfare in a combat situation, and that they may even be manipulating and controlling some of the UFO cults and contactees/abductees as a kind of "black" social experiment.

He certainly thinks this is the case with the UMMO affair - a labyrinthine mystery that for many seems to rival the "RlC" one.
http://www.strangemag.com/ummo.html

Governments seem to have been behind the release of some of the UMMO documents - question as always is why...

We know for sure the government (particularly AFOSI) was pumping false disinfo to Paul Bennewitz. What was going on there?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bennewitz

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 Post subject: Re: Passport to Magonia
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2010 6:55 pm 
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Seeker1 wrote:
Sheila wrote:
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What are other peoples opinions of his theories?


personally i believe than in earlier times Mothman would have been known as Sosthenios the benevolent winged demon...aka the archangel Michael.


I read the Mothman Prophecies. "He" didn't seem to act so benevolently, mostly terrifying the crap out of people. And neither did Indrid Cold, or most of the other "entities" Keel encountered.

They gave him prophecies about the future - but as he emphasizes, usually with deliberate misdirection - almost as if they didn't want him to prevent the Silver Bridge disaster (by warning him there would be a TNT explosion on the Ohio river instead). Not so benevolent either.

Loren Coleman once told me he considered Keel a "demonologist". But certainly he makes it seem like whatever he was dealing with, terrestrial, extra-terrestrial, or ultra-, it wasn't benevolent; it was manipulative, maybe not "evil" but not with interests coinciding with our own.


aka...the Angel of death.


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 Post subject: Re: Passport to Magonia
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2010 1:46 am 
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Sheila
I would call him the Conductor of souls
I guess he would be the Charon *(Ferryman)

According to the Zohar, Michael accompanies the souls of the pious and helps them to enter the gates of the heavenly Jerusalem. It is said that Michael and his host are stationed at the gates of the heavenly Jerusalem and give admittance to the souls of the just. Michael's function is to open the gates also of justice to the just. It is also said that at the resurrection,

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 Post subject: Re: Passport to Magonia
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2010 3:41 am 
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Quote:
[b]personally i believe than in earlier times Mothman would have been known as Sosthenios the benevolent winged demon...aka the archangel Michael
aka...the Angel of death.




Why does Death need wings?

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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2011 2:11 am 
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Seeker1 wrote:
Image

http://www.wunderkabinett.co.uk/emporiu ... opic=235.0

John Keel and Ultraterrestrials

I finished the Mothman Prophecies a few weeks ago. I must say it seemed remarkably plausible, until I did a reality check and realised that it doesn't, really. However, I find the idea of Fairies, Ghosts, UFOs, Bird-men, Strange phone calls etc being caused by the same forces very appealing - there are so many high strangeness cases in which all these things happen at the same time, and reports are prone to fashion but similar in many other respects. I don't find it necessarily follows to then go and create another kind of entity to blame all of this stuff on - could it not just be humans in some unknown way? That would certainly take the middleman out. However, in his much later afterword, Keel mentions that his theories advanced after that book (right up to the point of demonic forces) - which other books are recommended in order to get a fuller understanding of his theories? I don't think any of the others are in print but I should be able to search them out.

What are other peoples opinions of his theories? When I was describing the ultraterrestrials in the book, a friend who is Muslim said "That sounds very much like Djinn" - from what superficial knowledge I have about the idea of Djinn I am inclined to agree, but would anyone more learned on the subject like to discuss?

James

[snip]

Father Shandor

The Mothman Prophecies seems to dance the edge of the Ultra Terrestrial thesis, that the manifestations are from a parallel, but interdependent, strand of life. The concept is explored in such disparate place as the works of H.P. Lovecraft, and the books of Charles Fort, who coined the phrase 'We are property'. The more one wanders along the pat of the UT idea, the more meaningful that small phrase becomes.

One of the best treatments of the subject I have encountered is in the book 'The Dark Gods' by Anthony Roberts and Geoff Gilbertson. It covers and compares many disparate concepts, but one of the most striking parallels is the similarity between 'UFO abductions' and the old legends of being taken by the Fey Folk, where there is lost time, strange marks and bruising, night paralysis and supressed memories of being molested by ill defined beings. There is also a discussion of the Mothman in terms of the UT hypothesis.

The foreword by Colin Wilson dates the book somewhat, but the rest is still relevant in Fortean thought.

[snip]

http://www.ufomystic.com/2009/07/06/joh ... 1930-2009/

Keel first challenged the extraterrestrial hyposthesis with his idea of the “superspectrum,” which theorized that UFOs were controlled by intelligences that moved freely between wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum, appearing and disappearing from the infrared and the ultraviolet. Building on the ideas of little-known researchers like Meade Layne and Trevor Constable, he also proposed the theory (and provided ample evidence for this) that UFO entities were not from other planets, but were most likely native intelligences that had been involved with mankind throughout history and prehistory, and perhaps did not have our best interests in mind. These ideas were heresy to the ufological partyline at the time, and continue to be, which is a testament to their originality and implications.

In 1975, Keel rocked the paranormal community with the publication of The Mothman Prophecies, which was his take on the strange events leading up to the Silver Bridge disaster in Point Pleasant, West Virginia on December 15, 1967. In 1966, Keel began investigating reports of a frightening creature in the area around the town. Dubbed “Mothman,” the entity appeared as a headless human form sporting large wings and glowing red “eyes” in the chest area. Mothman did not fly like any known bird, bat or insect, swooping down on unsuspecting motorists and teenagers, and taking off from the ground vertically without moving its “wings” before keeping pace with fleeing cars and disappearing.

Keel documented other weird goings-on in Point Pleasant for nearly two years, including poltergeist phenomena, strange visions, doppelgangers of Keel himself and a scary character who called himself Indrid Cold. Critics claimed that he took storytelling liberties in The Mothman Prophecies, changing events and timelines to suit his narrative, but the essential message of the book still rings true. As Keel stated in the text, “Once you have established a belief, the phenomenon adjusts its manifestations to support that belief and thereby escalate it.” This hypothesis has been tested numerous times since in other UFO “flap” areas, (such as events around the Dulce, New Mexico area in the late 1970s and the more recent Stephenville case) and continues to hold its own.

[snip]


Just wondering, why it would be two years, I've noticed there seems to be some kind of time stamp phenomena on certain paranormal events that occur around places that have mythology attached to them.

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