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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2013 6:21 pm 
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... s/2611357/

Archaeologists working at an ancient church in Turkey think they've unearthed a piece of the world's most famous cross, the one used to crucify Jesus.

They found a stone chest during excavation at a 1,350-year-old church, and the chest had a number of relics inside believed to be associated with the crucifixion, a historian at Turkey's Mimar Sinan University of Fine Arts tells the Hurriyet Daily News.

"We have found a holy thing in a chest," she says. "It is a piece of a cross," and they think it's from the cross.

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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2013 8:36 pm 
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Emperor Constantine's mother Helena was given lots of money to indulge in her pet project, Christianity, and so she went to Jerusalem, at the time somewhat of a wasteland and forgotten city, to build churches. Helena was in her 70s.

Conveniently, she claimed to have found not only all three crosses that Jesus and the two others were crucified upon, but also the titulus, the inscription of the man's crime, that had legally to be pronounced above the crucified person's head.

The titulus is traditionally said to have been inscribed IESVS NAZARENVS REX IVDÆORVM, hence the INRI often seen above the head of Jesus on Christian iconography.

In the new testament the title 'King of the Jews' is only used by gentiles, the Magi, Pontius Pilate, Roman soldiers etc. The Jewish leaders called him 'King of Israel' as we see in Matthew and Mark.

It is worth remembering that crucifixion was reserved solely for sedition against the state, and at certain times such as the first Jewish revolt in 66-73ad huge numbers of Jews were crucified. Romans were so bored of hanging Jews on crosses they were nailing them up at strange angles just to relieve the boredom.

Whether any wooden crosses would have survived into the 4th century is debatable, but if they did then there would have been no lack of choice. If Helena was looking for the true cross I am sure someone would have supplied the demand. Half of the titulus is supposedly in Santa Croce in Gerusalemme in Rome today. It has three lines.

The first line is mostly missing, the second is written in Greek characters backwards and the third line is in Latin backwards. In 2002 it was pronounced a fake dating between 980ad and 1146ad.

What we do know is that the Roman cross used was a Tau cross. In other words it was T-shaped. It had a top cross-bar which slotted onto the top of the upright. The earliest depictions of Jesus on the cross also show him on a cross like this. Historically correct. I don't know when the modern idea of a cross with a top and two side bars of equal length crept in.

Image
Image
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Helena's murdering son is often said to be a christian convert, but in 321 Constantine instructed that Christians and non-Christians should be united in observing the venerable day of the sun, referencing the sun-worship that Aurelian had established as an official cult. Furthermore, and long after his oft alleged conversion to Christianity, Constantine's coinage continued to carry the symbols of the sun. When Constantine dedicated the new capital of Constantinople, which became the seat of Byzantine Christianity for a millennium, he did so wearing the Apollonian sun-rayed Diadem; no Christian symbols were present at this dedication.


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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2013 8:57 pm 
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Whoop wrote:
Emperor Constantine's mother Helena was given lots of money to indulge in her pet project, Christianity, and so she went to Jerusalem, at the time somewhat of a wasteland and forgotten city, to build churches. Helena was in her 70s.

Conveniently, she claimed to have found not only all three crosses that Jesus and the two others were crucified upon, but also the titulus, the inscription of the man's crime, that had legally to be pronounced above the crucified person's head.
I'm not sure if this is accurate. I've read it often but only in the works of modern historians. I've looked for evidence in ancient sources but so far I've come up empty, Perhaos some other forum member can help.

Whoop wrote:
The titulus is traditionally said to have been inscribed IESVS NAZARENVS REX IVDÆORVM, hence the INRI often seen above the head of Jesus on Christian iconography.

In the new testament the title 'King of the Jews' is only used by gentiles, the Magi, Pontius Pilate, Roman soldiers etc. The Jewish leaders called him 'King of Israel' as we see in Matthew and Mark.

It is worth remembering that crucifixion was reserved solely for sedition against the state...
Roman citizens were exempt from crucifixion except in extreme cases such as treason or rebellion. Slaves, foreigners and other non citizens could be crucified for any reason.

Whoop wrote:
'' and at certain times such as the first Jewish revolt in 66-73ad huge numbers of Jews were crucified. Romans were so bored of hanging Jews on crosses they were nailing them up at strange angles just to relieve the boredom.

Whether any wooden crosses would have survived into the 4th century is debatable, but if they did then there would have been no lack of choice. If Helena was looking for the true cross I am sure someone would have supplied the demand. Half of the titulus is supposedly in Santa Croce in Gerusalemme in Rome today. It has three lines.

The first line is mostly missing, the second is written in Greek characters backwards and the third line is in Latin backwards. In 2002 it was pronounced a fake dating between 980ad and 1146ad.

What we do know is that the Roman cross used was a Tau cross. In other words it was T-shaped. It had a top cross-bar which slotted onto the top of the upright. The earliest depictions of Jesus on the cross also show him on a cross like this. Historically correct. I don't know when the modern idea of a cross with a top and two side bars of equal length crept in.
Possibly an artistic device making it easier to mount the titulus.

FS

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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2013 5:07 pm 
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Well it will be interesting to see how far these relics go back.It might date to the time of Christ or not.
As far as St.Helen finding the three crosses and paper that proclaimed,Jesus King of the Jews, I have no idea what the climate back in her day was like . It might have been much drier, and therefore they might have survived.Look at the discoveries of mummies in Eygpt that have been found in recent years that have survived 8) .If these mummies could survive a 1,000 or 2,000 years, to our time, what's to say that the crosses couldn't have survived in Helen's day.

However, it does though make you wonder what the romans really did with these crosses once they took down the bodies .
Did they save them in a general storage yard or building, to be recycled for more cruxifictions? Did they use the lumber to frame houses, help build ships, or what?Not sure if anyone knows,and if they do, I haven't really seen any books about the subject here.Also, Saint Andrew was crucified on an X shaped cross. At least in religious art he is pictured with one.
I don't know if he was martyered in that area,but the piece of cross may have been that from St.Andrew, or maybe some other saint,who was martyered in this way.I believe St.Juliana was sawed length wise down the middle from her head to her feet, but we don't have the saw.Nor do i know of any place that has the pliers that were used to pull the teeth of St.Appolonia,as part of her martyerdom.She is by the way the patron saint of dentists.
There are also saints of the early church like St.Generose and others some of whom were martyers that we know very little about. So there is no telling if this piece was part of the True Cross of Jesus or not.


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2013 11:12 pm 
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HollyDolly wrote:
Well it will be interesting to see how far these relics go back.It might date to the time of Christ or not.
One has to be very cautious about anything to do with Jerusalem after the time of Jesus and his brother James.

After the Jewish revolt of ad 70 it was flattened. After all it wasn't really on the way to anywhere and who needed it? Josephus is not always reliable, but said that Jerusalem 'Was so thoroughly razed to the ground by those that demolished it to its foundations, that nothing was left that could ever persuade visitors that it had once been a place of habitation.'

Hadrian vowed to rebuild it for the Jews around ad 130 but instead made it a Roman military garrison town. The Jews yet again started plotting and the revolt of Bar Kochba annoyed the Romans so much that Jews were banned, any circumcised men entering the city were to be killed.

The town was called Aelia Capitolina and was pretty much a forgotten wasteland until Helena arrived and converted the old temple to Venus as the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.

It really is doubtful that in the 300s any dug up decayed wood could be identified as the cross that Joshua, I mean Jesus, was hung on. Unless of course it conveniently had that all-important titulus. How many of the thousands of other crosses used in the area have ever come to light? I think there is a wealth of difference between the mummy of a King in Egypt preserved in embalming fluids in a special building and a forgotten piece of Judean wood that a criminal was hung on.


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PostPosted: 07 Aug 2013 2:15 am 
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Ephesus
The city was famed for the Temple of Artemis (completed around 550 BC), one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. In 268 AD, the Temple was destroyed or damaged in a raid by the Goths.[3] It may have been rebuilt or repaired but this is uncertain, as its later history is not clear.[4] Emperor Constantine I rebuilt much of the city and erected new public baths.

Ephesus was one of the seven churches of Asia that are cited in the Book of Revelation.[6] The Gospel of John may have been written here.[7] The city was the site of several 5th-century Christian Councils, (see Council of Ephesus)

The Greek goddess Artemis and the great Anatolian goddess Kybele were identified together as Artemis of Ephesus. The many-breasted "Lady of Ephesus", identified with Artemis, was venerated in the Temple of Artemis, one of the Seven Wonders of the World and the largest building of the ancient world according to Pausanias (4.31.8). Pausanias mentions that the temple was built by Ephesus, son of the river god Caystrus[13] before the arrival of the Ionians. Of this structure, scarcely a trace remains.

The city was famed for the Temple of Artemis (Diana),[23] who had her chief shrine there, the Library of Celsus, and its theatre, which was capable of holding 25,000 spectators



Ephesus was an important center for Early Christianity from the AD 50s. From AD 52–54, Paul lived in Ephesus, working with the congregation and apparently organizing missionary activity into the hinterlands.[28] He became embroiled in a dispute with artisans, whose livelihood depended on selling the statuettes of Artemis in the Temple of Artemis (Acts 19:23–41). He wrote between 53 and 57 AD the letter 1 Corinthians from Ephesus (possibly from the "Paul tower" close to the harbour, where he was imprisoned for a short time). Later Paul wrote the Epistle to Ephesians while he was in prison in Rome (around 62 AD).

Roman Asia was associated with John,[29] one of the chief apostles, and the Gospel of John might have been written in Ephesus, c 90–100.[30] Ephesus was one of the seven cities addressed in Revelation (Revelation 2:1–7), indicating that the church at Ephesus was strong.

Two decades later, the church at Ephesus was still important enough to be addressed by a letter written by Bishop Ignatius of Antioch to the Ephesians in the early 2nd century AD, that begins with, "Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which is at Ephesus, in Asia, deservedly most happy, being blessed in the greatness and fullness of God the Father, and predestinated before the beginning of time, that it should be always for an enduring and unchangeable glory" (Letter to the Ephesians). The church at Ephesus had given their support for Ignatius, who was taken to Rome for execution.

A legend, which was first mentioned by Epiphanius of Salamis in the 4th century AD, purported that Mary may have spent the last years of her life in Ephesus. The Ephesians derived the argument from John's presence in the city, and Jesus’ instructions to John to take care of Mary after his death. Epiphanius, however, was keen to point out that, while the Bible says John was leaving for Asia, it specifically does not say that Mary went with him. He later stated that she was buried in Jerusalem.[31] Since the 19th century, The House of the Virgin Mary, about 7 km (4 mi) from Selçuk, is purported to have been the last home of Mary, mother of Jesus in the Roman Catholic tradition, based on the visions of Sister Anne Catherine Emmerich. It is a popular place of Catholic pilgrimage which has been visited by three recent popes.

[img]pload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Ephesus_Celsus_Library_Façade_.jpg/620px-Ephesus_Celsus_Library_Façade_.jpg[/img]

the Library


Ephesus is believed to be the city of the Seven Sleepers. The story of the Seven Sleepers, who are considered saints by Catholics and Orthodox Christians and whose story is also mentioned in the Qur'an

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephesus

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