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 Post subject: Knights Templar symbols
PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 4:46 pm 
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:shock:

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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 11:29 pm 
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Quote:
I'm wondering if anyone can shed light on the color theme of Black and white squares

http://www.dirkandarrow.com/resources/_ ... maller.jpg

It seems the Black and white squares were part of the Templar symbolism

I know the Knight of Malta use a Black and white theme
An interesting take on the Alchemy
http://blog.kingsolomonslodge.org/

The Freemasons use black and white checkered floors in their temples and this is seen in some of the cathedrals
and at Rennes Chateau

Hi Lov, I think the links to religion and alchemy are quite straight forward. Black and White shows two polar opposites, light and dark, positive and negative, good and evil. Or with alchemy, as above so below.
Not sure about the squares though, suppose floor tiles have to be some shape.
Regards
Nic


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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2012 1:51 am 
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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2012 10:23 pm 
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You do know the knights of malta cross is really a 4 sides pyramid folded up.. like if you look from the top down..


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PostPosted: 02 Oct 2012 8:16 pm 
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lovuian wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone can shed light on the color theme of Black and white squares

I guess I am going to have to quote the sufis again on this one. I'll try and be mercifully brief (as if...).

There are those that today doubt that the Templars had 'Saracenic' leanings, but that is not, however what the sufis say. Some of the symbolism of the Templars is so similar to that of sufism it is doubtful the two could not have had a common origin. Without going into the evidence, I ask you to accept it as a possibility.

A prominent historical authority on the Masons is Tobias Churton. I recommend his book 'Freemasonry The Reality' as a very good historical account of Masonry, without the sensationalism. In private correspondence with me Tobias agrees that the origins of Masonry is very likely to have been through influence from the Middle East.

So whether Masonry was a direct descendent of the Templars or whether they both share an origin by different routes from sufism is something to ponder. There are lots of well-documented strands of different sufi schools one could delve into. The aim of any true sufi school today, as ever, is the activation of the higher faculties of a person leading to his or her direct experience of higher consciousness. Sufis, unlike Islam, have women saints as well as men.

To me it makes little difference. Sufis say the Templars used their terminology and they say the Masons do too. If it seems very secretive, we must remember that Sufis have been oppressed by Islam in history as much as heretics have been tortured by Catholics. Sufis say they were in contact with the Cathars, which might bring them into the RLC arena. Secret also means to avoid unwanted attention from noisy sensation-seekers and shallow people. They have a job to do.

Masonry since its takeover by Grand Lodge is not the same animal it was originally. Grand Lodge collected and suppressed as much ancient Masonic literature as it could find, I dare say we have lost much of the early documentation, or it is now deep underground.

Above all in dealing with Arabic literature, especially of an esoteric nature, you have to be aware of the Arabic love of wordplay. Puns if you like. Deeper than that, it seems as if the Arabic triliteral word roots were originally devised around the association of ideas and words. This is a fundamental issue when dealing with translations of sufi literature. They inevitably miss at least half the connotations, probably much more. Coupled with this you also have Abjad, the system where each letter has a numerical equivalent. This is similar to the later Hebrew system (which has a few differences). In Persian, Urdu and other non-semitic languages the sounds differ a little but the numerical values of the letters remain exactly the same.

A thing you should note is that the Arabic word for black and wise are one and the same. The FHM triliteral root can mean black or wise (understanding). This root word also occurs in the Templar 'Head' they called Baphomet.

Mohammed's banner was black, standing for wisdom and lordship. The Kaaba in Mecca is also draped in black, signifying wisdom.

There is a sufi phrase 'Dar tariki, tariqat' - 'In the darkness, the path'.

The word Sayed, prince, is also connected with a word for black and is a term associated with a direct descendent of Mohammed.

The black and white motif is associated with the Verse of Light in the Koran, Sura 24, v 35. It is specifically stated that this verse is an allegory and should be understood metaphorically.

According to the sufi Sayed Idries Shah, the black and white checker effect is said to have been handed down from great antiquity. Sufi meetings perpetuate the alternation of light and dark by laying down a cloth of alternate black and white on the floor of the meeting house. The tracing boards of Masonry do the same, I am given to understand.

The sufis speak of light as truth, illumination. Black is wisdom. White being as near as we can to showing light.

Al-Ghazali (known as Algazael) wrote a book that greatly influenced the west, 'The niche for lights'. The whole book is the subject of light and darkness.

The famous sufi teaching joke about Mulla Nasrudin is also in this vein.

A man was walking home late one night when he saw Mulla Nasrudin searching under a street light on hands and knees for something on the ground.

"Mulla, what have you lost?" he asked.

"The key to my house," Nasrudin said.

"I'll help you look," the man said.

Soon, both men were down on their knees, looking for the key.

After a number of minutes, the man asked, "Where exactly did you drop it?"

Nasrudin waved his arm back toward the darkness. "Over there, in my house."

The first man jumped up. "Then why are you looking for it here?"

"Because there is more light here than inside my house."


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PostPosted: 03 Oct 2012 5:23 am 
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lovuian wrote:
It makes one wonder when you see Black and White
DUALISM
Gnostics tend to have Dualistic nature ...which would be reflected with back and White

As I understand it the gnostics were the ones who believed that Jesus's teaching contained knowledge of an inner dynamic that could transmute human consciousness and allow direct communication with the divine, rather than regarding Jesus as the one and only son of the divinity and the only path to a proposed salvation of some kind. Out there, somewhere else. When you are dead.

Symbols are only meaningful to those that know the symbolism and intent behind them in a given situation. They can act as powerful shorthand reminders and concentration devices.

I think the unity of opposites is always implicit where the opposites are clearly stated and juxtaposed, as in the checkerboard.

I do Tai Chi. Like the checkerboard the black and white yin yang symbol is a powerful black and white visual device used in this system. Before the first move one stands in Wu Chi stance. This is the empty stance, inactivity. The overall yin yang circle. Unity. Arms loose at sides. Knees unlocked, an imaginary golden thread holding up the head. Pelvis very slightly tucked forward, pelvic floor slightly raised. Feet both straight and pointing forward. There's quite a lot to just standing.

Wu chi stance may seem like doing nothing, but energy is activated allowing it to circulate internally. The spinal column aligns. The respiratory system regulates. It heals through the energy flow heating up sinovial fluid in the joints. There is better mental concentration and focus.

Then comes the movement. It's all cycles. Breathing cycles, preparation and action cycles, always curved movements, always moving around your axis. The swirl of the yin-yang symbol reflects this unity/duality very well.

At the end it's back to Wu Chi again.

It's just a system, one of many. I am not a died in the wool Daoist or anything, I'm strictly a-religious. Whether I treat Tai Chi as just a dance or as a cosmic instructional device leading to self-realisation is my responsibility. I get out of it somewhat more than I put into it, but I appreciate your mileage may vary.


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PostPosted: 03 Oct 2012 1:40 pm 
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Whoop wrote:
lovuian wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone can shed light on the color theme of Black and white squares

I guess I am going to have to quote the sufis again on this one. I'll try and be mercifully brief (as if...).

There are those that today doubt that the Templars had 'Saracenic' leanings, but that is not, however what the sufis say. Some of the symbolism of the Templars is so similar to that of sufism it is doubtful the two could not have had a common origin. Without going into the evidence, I ask you to accept it as a possibility.

A prominent historical authority on the Masons is Tobias Churton. I recommend his book 'Freemasonry The Reality' as a very good historical account of Masonry, without the sensationalism. In private correspondence with me Tobias agrees that the origins of Masonry is very likely to have been through influence from the Middle East.

So whether Masonry was a direct descendent of the Templars or whether they both share an origin by different routes from sufism is something to ponder. There are lots of well-documented strands of different sufi schools one could delve into. The aim of any true sufi school today, as ever, is the activation of the higher faculties of a person leading to his or her direct experience of higher consciousness. Sufis, unlike Islam, have women saints as well as men.

To me it makes little difference. Sufis say the Templars used their terminology and they say the Masons do too. If it seems very secretive, we must remember that Sufis have been oppressed by Islam in history as much as heretics have been tortured by Catholics. Sufis say they were in contact with the Cathars, which might bring them into the RLC arena. Secret also means to avoid unwanted attention from noisy sensation-seekers and shallow people. They have a job to do.

Masonry since its takeover by Grand Lodge is not the same animal it was originally. Grand Lodge collected and suppressed as much ancient Masonic literature as it could find, I dare say we have lost much of the early documentation, or it is now deep underground.

Above all in dealing with Arabic literature, especially of an esoteric nature, you have to be aware of the Arabic love of wordplay. Puns if you like. Deeper than that, it seems as if the Arabic triliteral word roots were originally devised around the association of ideas and words. This is a fundamental issue when dealing with translations of sufi literature. They inevitably miss at least half the connotations, probably much more. Coupled with this you also have Abjad, the system where each letter has a numerical equivalent. This is similar to the later Hebrew system (which has a few differences). In Persian, Urdu and other non-semitic languages the sounds differ a little but the numerical values of the letters remain exactly the same.

A thing you should note is that the Arabic word for black and wise are one and the same. The FHM triliteral root can mean black or wise (understanding). This root word also occurs in the Templar 'Head' they called Baphomet.

Mohammed's banner was black, standing for wisdom and lordship. The Kaaba in Mecca is also draped in black, signifying wisdom.

There is a sufi phrase 'Dar tariki, tariqat' - 'In the darkness, the path'.

The word Sayed, prince, is also connected with a word for black and is a term associated with a direct descendent of Mohammed.

The black and white motif is associated with the Verse of Light in the Koran, Sura 24, v 35. It is specifically stated that this verse is an allegory and should be understood metaphorically.

According to the sufi Sayed Idries Shah, the black and white checker effect is said to have been handed down from great antiquity. Sufi meetings perpetuate the alternation of light and dark by laying down a cloth of alternate black and white on the floor of the meeting house. The tracing boards of Masonry do the same, I am given to understand.

The sufis speak of light as truth, illumination. Black is wisdom. White being as near as we can to showing light.

Al-Ghazali (known as Algazael) wrote a book that greatly influenced the west, 'The niche for lights'. The whole book is the subject of light and darkness.

The famous sufi teaching joke about Mulla Nasrudin is also in this vein.

A man was walking home late one night when he saw Mulla Nasrudin searching under a street light on hands and knees for something on the ground.

"Mulla, what have you lost?" he asked.

"The key to my house," Nasrudin said.

"I'll help you look," the man said.

Soon, both men were down on their knees, looking for the key.

After a number of minutes, the man asked, "Where exactly did you drop it?"

Nasrudin waved his arm back toward the darkness. "Over there, in my house."

The first man jumped up. "Then why are you looking for it here?"

"Because there is more light here than inside my house."



whoop I think you are right onto something here

when I was researching the Grandmaster of the Templars Guilliame de Saunhac
(Love the man)

He went on many peace negotiations with the Sultan and other groups
what I learned is their was a ritual in which he became a blood brother
a slitting of the hand and mixing his blood with theirs

Saunhac brought a peace negotiation for Damietta
but Louis IX craved war and blood

so all his negotiations were for not

what I'm saying is there is documentation I believe that shows this intermingling at the highest order
Saunhac codified the Templar documents

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PostPosted: 03 Oct 2012 1:43 pm 
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Whoop wrote:
lovuian wrote:
It makes one wonder when you see Black and White
DUALISM
Gnostics tend to have Dualistic nature ...which would be reflected with back and White

As I understand it the gnostics were the ones who believed that Jesus's teaching contained knowledge of an inner dynamic that could transmute human consciousness and allow direct communication with the divine, rather than regarding Jesus as the one and only son of the divinity and the only path to a proposed salvation of some kind. Out there, somewhere else. When you are dead.

Symbols are only meaningful to those that know the symbolism and intent behind them in a given situation. They can act as powerful shorthand reminders and concentration devices.

I think the unity of opposites is always implicit where the opposites are clearly stated and juxtaposed, as in the checkerboard.

I do Tai Chi. Like the checkerboard the black and white yin yang symbol is a powerful black and white visual device used in this system. Before the first move one stands in Wu Chi stance. This is the empty stance, inactivity. The overall yin yang circle. Unity. Arms loose at sides. Knees unlocked, an imaginary golden thread holding up the head. Pelvis very slightly tucked forward, pelvic floor slightly raised. Feet both straight and pointing forward. There's quite a lot to just standing.

Wu chi stance may seem like doing nothing, but energy is activated allowing it to circulate internally. The spinal column aligns. The respiratory system regulates. It heals through the energy flow heating up sinovial fluid in the joints. There is better mental concentration and focus.

Then comes the movement. It's all cycles. Breathing cycles, preparation and action cycles, always curved movements, always moving around your axis. The swirl of the yin-yang symbol reflects this unity/duality very well.

At the end it's back to Wu Chi again.

It's just a system, one of many. I am not a died in the wool Daoist or anything, I'm strictly a-religious. Whether I treat Tai Chi as just a dance or as a cosmic instructional device leading to self-realisation is my responsibility. I get out of it somewhat more than I put into it, but I appreciate your mileage may vary.


I'm a spiritual person too
and I totally understand the concept of the ONE which is the uniting of everything
and the black and white checkerboard of squares goes way way back and is throughout many ancient civilizations

some say it came from the heavens or from a ancient technologically advanced civilization

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PostPosted: 03 Oct 2012 5:58 pm 
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lovuian wrote:
I'm a spiritual person too
I don't consider myself much of a spiritual person. All I know is there is energy and there are dimensions in the human repertoire of experience that are not widely explored by mainstream society.


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PostPosted: 03 Oct 2012 6:33 pm 
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lovuian wrote:
what I'm saying is there is documentation I believe that shows this intermingling at the highest order
Twixt Templar and Arab there was much exchange. The Arabs certainly considered the Templars a cut above most of the Franj, a collective name the Arabs gave to the Crusading invaders. It's not saying much. The Arab opinion of the Crusaders was not high.

There were long periods of peace at times, some of the Franj even bothered to learn Arabic. An interesting book to read here is 'The Crusades through Arab Eyes'. It's a history of the Crusades as written by the contemporary Arabic sources. A different side to the story. It's not going to reveal any great secrets, but it has a very interesting interlude between an Arabic ambassador visiting Jerusalem during the Crusader occupation and shows the respect the Templars showed him, providing access to a side chapel in the Al Aksa Mosque for his prayers and apologising for the rudeness of a French soldier who intimidated him for doing so.

Image

Shah devotes a whole chapter in his book simply called 'The Sufis' to both the Builders, a sufi brotherhood and prototype of the equivalent Masons and another brief one to the Templars. Sir Richard Burton asserted that Sufi-ism was the Eastern parent of Freemasonry. (F, Hitchman, Burton, Vol 1, page 286) The sufis accept that Sir Richard Burton was a sufi adept.


Last edited by Whoop on 03 Oct 2012 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 03 Oct 2012 6:34 pm 
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lovuian wrote:
when I was researching the Grandmaster of the Templars Guilliame de Saunhac
(Love the man)

He went on many peace negotiations with the Sultan and other groups
what I learned is their was a ritual in which he became a blood brother
a slitting of the hand and mixing his blood with theirs.


Do you have Guillaume de Saunhac confused with Matthieu le Sauvage? Sauvage was the last Templar Preceptor of Sidon. A very unreliable witness named Antonio Sicci told the Papal Commission Sauvage had done a blood-swapping ceremony with the Soldan of Babylon.

Father Silence

Edited to add: Sauvage was Preceptor of Sidon, but I don't know if he was the last one or not.

FS

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You've discovered you can look inside yourself
You know what that means? You're promoted.
You're no longer a bum; you're an artist."

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PostPosted: 03 Oct 2012 10:37 pm 
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Father Silence wrote:
lovuian wrote:
when I was researching the Grandmaster of the Templars Guilliame de Saunhac
(Love the man)

He went on many peace negotiations with the Sultan and other groups
what I learned is their was a ritual in which he became a blood brother
a slitting of the hand and mixing his blood with theirs.


Do you have Guillaume de Saunhac confused with Matthieu le Sauvage? Sauvage was the last Templar Preceptor of Sidon. A very unreliable witness named Antonio Sicci told the Papal Commission Sauvage had done a blood-swapping ceremony with the Soldan of Babylon.

Father Silence

Edited to add: Sauvage was Preceptor of Sidon, but I don't know if he was the last one or not.

FS


Guillaume de Suanhac did send the English King, Henry III a vial of "the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ" from the Holy Land. Maybe that was what you were thinking of. He did negotiate with an Emir sent by the Sultan for a diplomatic settlement.

FS

_________________
"Here's something on which you can really pride yourself
You've discovered you can look inside yourself
You know what that means? You're promoted.
You're no longer a bum; you're an artist."

Hans Richter "Dreams That Money Can Buy"


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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2012 3:20 am 
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Whoop wrote:
lovuian wrote:
what I'm saying is there is documentation I believe that shows this intermingling at the highest order
Twixt Templar and Arab there was much exchange. The Arabs certainly considered the Templars a cut above most of the Franj, a collective name the Arabs gave to the Crusading invaders. It's not saying much. The Arab opinion of the Crusaders was not high.

There were long periods of peace at times, some of the Franj even bothered to learn Arabic. An interesting book to read here is 'The Crusades through Arab Eyes'. It's a history of the Crusades as written by the contemporary Arabic sources. A different side to the story. It's not going to reveal any great secrets, but it has a very interesting interlude between an Arabic ambassador visiting Jerusalem during the Crusader occupation and shows the respect the Templars showed him, providing access to a side chapel in the Al Aksa Mosque for his prayers and apologising for the rudeness of a French soldier who intimidated him for doing so.

Image

Shah devotes a whole chapter in his book simply called 'The Sufis' to both the Builders, a sufi brotherhood and prototype of the equivalent Masons and another brief one to the Templars. Sir Richard Burton asserted that Sufi-ism was the Eastern parent of Freemasonry. (F, Hitchman, Burton, Vol 1, page 286) The sufis accept that Sir Richard Burton was a sufi adept.

Hey Whoop
I appreciate so much the info
In St Louis we have the Moolah temple
it is freemason and it is based on egypt moors style
so you are sooo right on

the stained glass process came from the Mideast....
thanks for the info

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2012 3:26 am 
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Father Silence wrote:
Father Silence wrote:
lovuian wrote:
when I was researching the Grandmaster of the Templars Guilliame de Saunhac
(Love the man)

He went on many peace negotiations with the Sultan and other groups
what I learned is their was a ritual in which he became a blood brother
a slitting of the hand and mixing his blood with theirs.


Do you have Guillaume de Saunhac confused with Matthieu le Sauvage? Sauvage was the last Templar Preceptor of Sidon. A very unreliable witness named Antonio Sicci told the Papal Commission Sauvage had done a blood-swapping ceremony with the Soldan of Babylon.

Father Silence

Edited to add: Sauvage was Preceptor of Sidon, but I don't know if he was the last one or not.

FS


Guillaume de Suanhac did send the English King, Henry III a vial of "the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ" from the Holy Land. Maybe that was what you were thinking of. He did negotiate with an Emir sent by the Sultan for a diplomatic settlement.

FS

Yes he did those things above too very good
wonder where that vial of blood came from?...It was certified so when you give the King of England Holy Grail it has to be certified...its documented too

but alas the vial has gone missing ...but the Templars were the trustees

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2012 8:54 am 
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lovuian wrote:
In St Louis we have the Moolah temple it is freemason and it is based on egypt moors style
OK, I have some more info re Saracen-Western intercourse, from annotations in the back of Sayed Idries Shah's book 'The Sufis'.

Shah says the interchange between western sovereigns and 'infidel saracens of various brands' was extraordinarily close.

Charlemagne fought as an ally with a Moslem sovereign (unstated whom).

Abdurahman II of Spain (821-852) sent an ambassador - Yahya the Gazelle - to a Norman King.

Richard the Lionheart (Arabic qalb el-nimr, both Sufi initiatory words) proposed that his sister marry the brother of Saladin. She was the widow of the King of Sicily, whose rulers were using Sufi phrases in heraldic devices.

Richard the Lionheart's brother John (excommunicated 1209) sent an embassy from England to the Spanish-Moroccan Commander of the Faithful, offering to embrace Islam.

Richard married (1191) Berengaria of Navarre, whose brother, Sancho the Strong, was a close ally of the Spanish Arabs.

Now here's one for the RLC community: Shah says Richard's brother John was in 1211 preparing to give military support to the Albigensians, who were undoubtably saturated with Sufic thought.

Isabella of Castile was married to Edmund of Yorke; she was descended from Mohammed II of Seville.

Sufic influence to England at this time includes Morris (Moorish) dancing. John of Gaunt probably brought the dancers over, Gaunt was a patron of Chaucer, who used Sufi materials (my note: see Chaucer's 'Parliament of Foules' and its precursor, the Sufi book 'Conference of Birds' by Fariduddin Attar for one example. There are others in some of the Canterbury Tales). Gaunt married Chaucer's wife Philippa.

The lords of Aragon were direct descendants of the Moslem kings of Granada.

There are said to be 50,000 descendants today (this was written in the 1960s) in England of the Beni Omeyya, from the line of Pedro the Cruel.

Thomas a Becket, Chancellor and Archbishop of Canterbury is said to have had a Saracen mother.

Shams el-Doha is the Arabic name of an English or Scottish princess who married the Moroccan sovereign Abu el-Hassan (1330-1380).

The Greek Emperor John Cantacuzenus gave his daughter to Turkish sovereign Orkhan in 1346. Orkhan organised the Janissaries, an elite military organisation owing allegiance to the Sufi teacher Haji Bektash.

Shah goes on to say: "From the Islamic point of view there is no possibility of Moslem women being offered to unbelievers, and that such marriages took place or were mooted is confirmation of the Eastern tradition that there was an initiatory understanding between Moslems of the time and the nominal Christians with whose families they were thus closely allied. Both current prudence and subsequent religious propaganda have effaced public acknowledgement of this."

There are numerous cases of prominent Catholics who led a double life - they were trying to integrate the direct experiences of the divine they'd had had through the Sufis back into the mainstream Catholic world, and a tricky path it was.

Sufis have been master psychologists for millennia. All divisions are arbitrary, being made by humans, but Sufis describe 7 discrete stages towards the completion of man. They are called nafs or sometimes 'men'. A technical term. Degrees if you like.

Nafs-i-ammara (the commanding self). The usual ego-centric out of control person, although believing him or herself to be a coherent personality, realises he or she has a multiple and changing personality. We start to see our egos as the commanding self - it's ruling us.

Nafs-i-lawwama (the accusing nafs). The dawn of self-awareness and self-accusation. Automatic thoughts start to be seen for what they are.

Nafs-i-mulhama (the inspired nafs). The start of real mental integration. The mind starts to become capable of operating on a higher level.

Nafs-i-mutmainna (the serene nafs). Serene balance. Equilibrium. End of duality.

Nafs-i-radiyya (the fulfilled nafs). Power of fulfillment, new ranges of experience not susceptible to description beyond approximate analogy.

Nafs-i-mardiyya (the fulfilling nafs). A new activity and function, including extra dimensions of the individuality.

Nafs-i-safiyya wa kamila (the purified and complete nafs). Completion of the task of reconstitution, the possibility exists of teaching others, there is a capacity for objective understanding.

Unlike some systems, where enlightenment is seen as an end in itself, Sufis consider it is only worthwhile if the transformation results in using the realisations in a useful way for the benefit of humanity and the well-being of the planet. So the experience of the unity of opposites is only a stage 4 out of 7 experience on their scale.


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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2012 11:12 am 
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Wow....all of a sudden this makes sense.

Image

Abrasax.....in Gnostic cosmology, the 7 letters spelling its name represent each of the 7 classic planets—Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.[2]

The Seven Society of The University of Virginia (Thomas Jefferson's School)

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2012 11:16 am 
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Quote:
Richard the Lionheart (Arabic qalb el-nimr, both Sufi initiatory words) proposed that his sister marry the brother of Saladin. She was the widow of the King of Sicily, whose rulers were using Sufi phrases in heraldic devices.

Richard the Lionheart's brother John (excommunicated 1209) sent an embassy from England to the Spanish-Moroccan Commander of the Faithful, offering to embrace Islam.

Richard married (1191) Berengaria of Navarre, whose brother, Sancho the Strong, was a close ally of the Spanish Arabs.


It's been some time, but we have discussed on this forum, the 'Warriors Code' that bound Richard and Saladin....I can't remember the name of it. I'll have to see if I can find it.

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2012 11:30 am 
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Queen Bee
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It is fascinating Whoop and Serendipity how that SEVEN is so important
Seven rhymes with heaven

and you see that with the planets and with spiritual pathway and with the angels

Richard the Lionheart was another fascinating character
and its interesting his connection with Saladin and how both men respected each other

The Templars was the Logistics for getting things out of the Mideast to Europe

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2012 12:25 pm 
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Quote:
The Templars was the Logistics for getting things out of the Mideast to Europe


Logistics.....commerce.

Anyone in business can tell you that commerce generates mounds of paper-work, or clay tablets depending on the age of the business....

What happened to all of the Templar paperwork? It didn't just disappear. It's somewhere.

Then you have the Silk Road. Just think of the commerce that took place there. And they say, that the rulers of the Silk Road, the Scythians, had no written word. Really? That's funny.

I wonder, if the records of the Silk Road are in the same place as the records of the Templars?

An accounting of who actually owes who, going back thousands of years.

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PostPosted: 05 Oct 2012 3:34 am 
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Serendipity wrote:
Wow....all of a sudden this makes sense.

Image

Abrasax.....in Gnostic cosmology, the 7 letters spelling its name represent each of the 7 classic planets—Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.[2]

The Seven Society of The University of Virginia (Thomas Jefferson's School)


I don't think the above diagram can be right. If the 7 classic planets - well six planets and a sun - are Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, why does the above diagram miss out the Moon and Saturn and include Neptune and Uranus?

Regarding the astrological symbols used in the middle ages and in the diagram above, there is a lot of nonsense available about their origins and the esoteric meanings of what they represent, including the current Wikipedia entry.

Perhaps it would interest some of you to know the truth. There is no doubt that the Arabs were the pioneers of western astronomy, so it is to them we should look, not the Greeks or anywhere else.

The sun is a pictogram of the sun.

The moon is a pictogram of the moon.

Earth is a pictogram of earth.

Mars is a stylised form of the Arabic word for Mars, Mirikh, written upside down, probably through faulty transcription at some point.

Mercury is a stylised form of the Arabic word Utarid, Mercury, standing sideways.

The sign for Venus is the initial of the Arabic word for Venus, stylised.

Saturn is likewise the initial of the Arabic word for Saturn, stylised.

The symbol for Jupiter is a shorthand contraction of the Arabic word for Jupiter, Mushtari.

Neptune is modern. After Neptune was discovered, the Bureau des Longitudes named it Neptune and gave it Neptune's trident. Uranus is modern.

The symbols have no other special significance or sanctity and formed no part of any ancient secret code system.


Last edited by Whoop on 05 Oct 2012 3:57 am, edited 5 times in total.

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PostPosted: 05 Oct 2012 3:36 am 
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lovuian wrote:
Seven rhymes with heaven
And eleven.


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PostPosted: 05 Oct 2012 4:40 am 
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Queen Bee
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Serendipity wrote:
Quote:
The Templars was the Logistics for getting things out of the Mideast to Europe


Logistics.....commerce.

Anyone in business can tell you that commerce generates mounds of paper-work, or clay tablets depending on the age of the business....

What happened to all of the Templar paperwork? It didn't just disappear. It's somewhere.

Then you have the Silk Road. Just think of the commerce that took place there. And they say, that the rulers of the Silk Road, the Scythians, had no written word. Really? That's funny.

I wonder, if the records of the Silk Road are in the same place as the records of the Templars?

An accounting of who actually owes who, going back thousands of years.


Saunhac codified the records ...where they were kept well that is the BIG Question

Yes serendipity where are the log books? two culprits would be King Phillip and the Vatican
but alas I don't they got them :wink:

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PostPosted: 05 Oct 2012 5:15 am 
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Whoop wrote:
lovuian wrote:
Seven rhymes with heaven
And eleven.

that is sooo right great point

Sufis believe they are practicing Ihsan (perfection of worship) as revealed by Gabriel to Muhammad, "Worship and serve Allah as you are seeing Him and while you see Him not yet truly He sees you."

the Archangel Gabriel plays a big part in the Koran
Image
Moolah temple at Saint Louis
Whoop is right
its Egyptian/moorish
Image

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bweston23/4703199733/

this is just Awesome
Image
Geometric arabesque tiling on the underside of the dome of Hafiz's tomb in Shiraz.

Saladin
The Latin Kingdom formed in the following year lasted until Saladin destroyed King Guy's army at the Horns of Hettin in 1187 and shortly after recovered Jerusalem. In stark contrast to the Crusades 88 years earlier, Saladin, adhering to the teachings of Islam, did not slaughter the city's Christian inhabitants. Saladin's noble act won him the respect of his opponents and many more people throughout the world.
King Richard I of England, better known as Richard the Lionheart, who led the Third Crusade in 1189 to recover the Holy City, met Saladin in a conflict that was to be celebrated in later chivalric romances. Although the Crusaders failed in their purpose, Richard the Lionheart gained Saladin's lifelong respect as a worthy opponent. Saladin's generosity and sense of honor in negotiating the peace treaty that ended the Crusade won him the lasting admiration and gratitude of the Christian World.

Many Crusaders discovered that Muslims, like them, possess virtues the Christians considered sacred. In fact, some Christians thought that "Saladin had European blood in his veins, and was a Christian knight at heart." To Muslims, Saladin was more than just a warrior. He was a man of piety and true faith and vision; he was a builder, a patron of literature and chivalry.

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PostPosted: 05 Oct 2012 5:24 am 
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Saladin
Saladin grew up in a Muslim society that was powerfully influenced by Sufism. Sufism is a school of Islam whose members seek higher spiritual life and closer intimacy with God.
The essence and divine values of the religion of Islam were the center stage of practice as opposed to a superficial practice. The degree of closeness to God by the virtue of thikr, the private and congregational meditation and recollection of God in the heart and mind, and the work for tazkiyah (purification of inner-self and soul) was an every day norm. The divine principles such as chivalry, piety, nobility, justice, humbleness, generosity, caring, love, brotherhood, mercy and forgiveness were a living reality in hearts and minds of the mass majority of Muslims.
http://www.islamic-study.org/saladin_%28salahu_ad-deen%29.htm

According to the Spanish Muslim traveler Ibn Jubayr, who was a contemporary of Saladin, Damascus was a heaven for all: Christians, Jews and Muslims. He stated: "Damascus was the most populated city in the world. Behind the city walls the streets were narrow, lined with three-story houses of mud and reeds. The bazaars were noisy with metal workers and fragrant with spices. There were many public baths. There were twenty colleges for students of law and religion and a large free hospital. The Orthodox Christian church of St. Mary was brilliant with mosaics, and worshippers there were freely allowed to practice their religion. The rich Jewish community of some 3000, many of them refugees from the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem, ran their own university.

The Ummayad Mosque-Damascus, Syria
has two pillars
the Minaret of the Bride, was not just a place from where the muezzin could make his call to prayer, but a building with sizable apartments for occupation by scholars who, as was then customary, passed from one center of learning to another. The topmost one was occupied for two years by al-Ghazali.
The second Minaret is called the Minaret of Jesus. Prophet Jesus, as Muslims believe, will be returning to earth, and will start his call from this minaret. Muslims and Christians together will then respond to his call. The Grand Mufti of Syria, Shaykh Ahmad Kuftaro calls on both Muslims and Christians to work together paving the road for his return.


The Umayyad Mosque was originally east of St. John Baptist Church. Muslims and Christians for seventy years performed their rituals side by side, before the Mosque expansion during Caliph al-Walid ibn Abdul Malek, in 705. He bought the St. John Baptist Church from the Christians in exchange for four other churches in the city. Today, the tomb of John the Baptist stands is in the center of the Umayyad Mosque along with the original baptismal well and stone-made pot.

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PostPosted: 05 Oct 2012 8:01 am 
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lovuian wrote:
Image
Geometric arabesque tiling on the underside of the dome of Hafiz's tomb in Shiraz.
The term Hafiz refers to anyone who has learned the entire Koran by heart. This particular Hafiz is a much revered Persian sufi poet. He's not the most famous Persian poet, that accolade goes to Ferdowsi.

Mention Ferdowsi or Hafiz to a Persian and he or she will be instantly reciting it in rapture. They love their poetry. Jalaluddin Rumi, founder of the Mevlevi or whirling sufis, also wrote in Persian, but he was born in what is now Tajikstan and worked in Turkey. Rumi's Masnawi, in recognition of its brilliance, is known as 'The Koran in Persian', a title no other single book would ever dare to be given.

Note that there are no sufi churches or mosques, only shrines. The Dome of the Rock, the first building to be built upon sufi geometric principles, is often called a mosque, but it is in fact a shrine.


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