Arcadia Discussion Zone

Forums dedicated to history's mysteries, Rennes-le-Château and beyond…

Read the Arcadia Forum House Rules

It is currently 16 Jan 2018 9:18 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 204 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Baphomet
PostPosted: 21 May 2011 9:53 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
Posts: 4659
Im reading a new book by Frale on the Templars and the Shroud of 'Christ'.

Anyone read it yet?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 21 May 2011 10:15 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 15 May 2008 7:42 pm
Posts: 4314
Location: Northumbria
I haven’t read the book yet but this is an interesting Italian article about the words that are allegedly portrayed on the shroud….

http://www.christianismus.it/modules.ph ... 156&page=4
http://www.christianismus.it/modules.ph ... d=156&page
http://www.christianismus.it/modules.ph ... le&sid=157


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 21 May 2011 10:29 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
Posts: 4659
Thanks for that Tingra.

Im still reading it, but was very interested in these views.

I somehow have the feeling, when reading Frale, that she is certainly towing a party line ..... which is somewhat disappointing. If she is biased ... how can she be presenting a balanced view?

Anyway, i'll see as i read further ....

Very interesting to read about where all the nonsense about the 'Baphomet' first originated ....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 23 May 2011 6:44 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2008 12:53 am
Posts: 8973
Location: Los Angeles
bergeredearcadie wrote:
I somehow have the feeling, when reading Frale, that she is certainly towing a party line ..... which is somewhat disappointing. If she is biased ... how can she be presenting a balanced view?


Given that she's an historian accredited by the Vatican, don't you think anything she writes is going to be viewed with a large dose of skepticism from some quarters, no matter how balanced her material is?

TCP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 23 May 2011 8:36 pm 
Offline
Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: 20 Dec 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 1188
Location: Santa Cruz
bergeredearcadie wrote:

...I somehow have the feeling, when reading Frale, that she is certainly towing a party line ..... which is somewhat disappointing. If she is biased ... how can she be presenting a balanced view?...



Whom does the Frale serve?

Sorry, couldn't resist going back for seconds!

:D

_________________
"The earlier culture will become a heap of rubble and finally a heap of ashes, but spirit will hover over the ashes."

Ludwig Wittgenstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 23 May 2011 8:37 pm 
Offline
Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: 20 Dec 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 1188
Location: Santa Cruz
TCP wrote:
bergeredearcadie wrote:
I somehow have the feeling, when reading Frale, that she is certainly towing a party line ..... which is somewhat disappointing. If she is biased ... how can she be presenting a balanced view?


Given that she's an historian accredited by the Vatican, don't you think anything she writes is going to be viewed with a large dose of skepticism from some quarters, no matter how balanced her material is?

TCP


She isn't just accredited by the Vatican, she works for them...

_________________
"The earlier culture will become a heap of rubble and finally a heap of ashes, but spirit will hover over the ashes."

Ludwig Wittgenstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 24 May 2011 1:02 am 
Offline
Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2011 12:02 pm
Posts: 1801
Roger wrote:
do you honestly believe that the Vatican is hiding anything, or inventing anything about the Templars?



Hmmmm.... let's see...how about the TRUTH?

_________________
"That historical explanation cannot deal in absolutes and cannot adduce sufficient causes greatly irritates some simple and impatient souls"
E. P. Thompson, The Poverty of Theory


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 24 May 2011 5:38 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2009 3:29 am
Posts: 8945
Location: Texas
I'm with TCP and Hot Spur and Caelum

_________________
Everything is Connected and there are no
coincidences


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 24 May 2011 6:10 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2009 3:29 am
Posts: 8945
Location: Texas
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: isn't it past your bedtime.... :roll:

_________________
Everything is Connected and there are no
coincidences


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 24 May 2011 6:40 am 
Offline
High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
Posts: 4659
Whom does the Frale serve?

Sorry, couldn't resist going back for seconds!


:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 24 May 2011 6:44 am 
Offline
High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
Posts: 4659
do you honestly believe that the Vatican is hiding anything, or inventing anything about the Templars?

LOL.

Oh Roger, with hand on heart, even i know that no-one knows the true answer to that one!!!
Not even the Vatican ....

As for Frale, if she works for the Vatican (which i didnt know) then she will be biased for the Vatican. Not saying its a bad thing ..... just that she may present her arguments subconsciously with that bias ......


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 24 May 2011 6:46 am 
Offline
High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
Posts: 4659
don't you think anything she writes is going to be viewed with a large dose of skepticism from some quarters,

By the phrase 'some quarters' are you referring to the loony DVC crowd?

I believe the links Tingra posted were criticisms directed at Frales interpretations of documents from people who certainly seem not to fit that bill, non?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 24 May 2011 8:11 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 11 Nov 2009 4:34 pm
Posts: 3058
Location: traverse city,michigan
Roger wrote:
do you honestly believe that the Vatican is hiding anything



Well! Lets say they are.

_________________
on the trail of the grail


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 24 May 2011 9:35 pm 
Offline
Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: 20 Dec 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 1188
Location: Santa Cruz
bergeredearcadie wrote:
do you honestly believe that the Vatican is hiding anything, or inventing anything about the Templars?

As for Frale, if she works for the Vatican (which i didnt know) then she will be biased for the Vatican. Not saying its a bad thing ..... just that she may present her arguments subconsciously with that bias ......


Here's the official listing just for posterity sake:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... gGrT76_obA

_________________
"The earlier culture will become a heap of rubble and finally a heap of ashes, but spirit will hover over the ashes."

Ludwig Wittgenstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 25 May 2011 12:14 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2008 12:53 am
Posts: 8973
Location: Los Angeles
hotspur wrote:
Roger wrote:
do you honestly believe that the Vatican is hiding anything, or inventing anything about the Templars?



Hmmmm.... let's see...how about the TRUTH?


Such as...?

TCP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 25 May 2011 12:15 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2008 12:53 am
Posts: 8973
Location: Los Angeles
lovuian wrote:
I'm with TCP and Hot Spur and Caelum


WAIT - what am I being tagged with? :shock:

TCP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 25 May 2011 12:27 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2008 12:53 am
Posts: 8973
Location: Los Angeles
Caelum wrote:
bergeredearcadie wrote:
do you honestly believe that the Vatican is hiding anything, or inventing anything about the Templars?

As for Frale, if she works for the Vatican (which i didnt know) then she will be biased for the Vatican. Not saying its a bad thing ..... just that she may present her arguments subconsciously with that bias ......


Here's the official listing just for posterity sake:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... gGrT76_obA


Interesting to note that she's listed as an "archive employee", not as a researcher or writer. On the other hand, I don't think the Vatican Publishing House publishes her work, so maybe she's not employed in that capacity. I wonder what she does for them?

TCP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 25 May 2011 12:51 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2008 12:53 am
Posts: 8973
Location: Los Angeles
bergeredearcadie wrote:
don't you think anything she writes is going to be viewed with a large dose of skepticism from some quarters,

By the phrase 'some quarters' are you referring to the loony DVC crowd?

I believe the links Tingra posted were criticisms directed at Frales interpretations of documents from people who certainly seem not to fit that bill, non?


Indeed not. From what I was able to make out with the aid of a translator, among other points, Frale is being critized for hypothesizing that Shroud of Turin was once held by the Templars. Should we then conclude that Templar possession of the Shroud is the Vatican's opinion on the matter?

TCP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 25 May 2011 1:00 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2008 12:53 am
Posts: 8973
Location: Los Angeles
bergeredearcadie wrote:
do you honestly believe that the Vatican is hiding anything, or inventing anything about the Templars?

LOL.

Oh Roger, with hand on heart, even i know that no-one knows the true answer to that one!!!
Not even the Vatican ....

As for Frale, if she works for the Vatican (which i didnt know) then she will be biased for the Vatican. Not saying its a bad thing ..... just that she may present her arguments subconsciously with that bias ......


What about in an instance where the Vatican has no predetermined position? We all know what happened to the Templars, I don't see how or why the Vatican might be trying to cover its tracks on that one, it all went down seven hundred years ago and nobody can claim damages.

Take, for example, what I just read in one of the criticisms posted above, re: Templar possession of the Shroud of Turin. Frale certainly wouldn't be the first to suggest it (wasn't it actually Picknett and Prince?), but have we ever seen the Vatican weigh in on it, for or against? Not that I'm aware of. If Frale is only touting the Vatican byline, then where's the great cover-up?

TCP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 25 May 2011 1:16 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2009 3:29 am
Posts: 8945
Location: Texas
the great Coverup dear ....is
why were the Templars hunted down and destroyed by the CHURCH!!!!!

Why were they burned at the stake for Heresy?

it seems this long lost document has found the Church clear of conscious in burning them at the stake
they were not Heretics
just

Bad Catholics

:roll: that is why they Inquisition burned them

Now I'll hear the peanut gallery chime in that it was that big bad Phillip who burned them and tortured them
The document proves the Church is innocent

but then there is the problem of the hunting down of the Templars in other countries

the Church hunted them down and tortured and insisted the Kings of England try them as well as other countries

it wasn't Phillip then...Phillip's jurisdiction was FRANCE...not Britain or Scotland

perhaps Pope Benedict's goal as Pope is to tell the world that it wasn't the Church's fault

Is he convincing? ...all the Historians should be pleased "Documentation at last"...the church is innocent

Believe it or not

_________________
Everything is Connected and there are no
coincidences


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 25 May 2011 4:09 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2009 3:29 am
Posts: 8945
Location: Texas
I'm waiting
:roll:
lets hear what you think?Snookems :wink:
Cmon Lets hear some real FACTS

What was the crime of DeMolay? What was the crime of the Templars?
or
there was no crimes ....just Bad Catholics

who pronounced judgement
the Inquisition or the King of France

I know how the trials went down in England and Scotland....the Inquisition was there...not Phillip of France
so who REALLY was behind the Templars fall

_________________
Everything is Connected and there are no
coincidences


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 25 May 2011 5:00 am 
Offline
Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2011 12:02 pm
Posts: 1801
Roger wrote:
Oh right... "the peanut gallery"... your insufferable ignorance isn't at all as "cute" as you appear to think it is.



Roger you are such a dag.

You ask a question knowing the answers you are going to get.

Which then leaves you with the opening for your comeback.

Nicely set up.

Must be great sport for you.

_________________
"That historical explanation cannot deal in absolutes and cannot adduce sufficient causes greatly irritates some simple and impatient souls"
E. P. Thompson, The Poverty of Theory


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 25 May 2011 5:06 am 
Offline
Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2011 12:02 pm
Posts: 1801
TCP wrote:
hotspur wrote:
Roger wrote:
do you honestly believe that the Vatican is hiding anything, or inventing anything about the Templars?



Hmmmm.... let's see...how about the TRUTH?


Such as...?

TCP




Wouldn't know.

Just my automatonic response to any question regarding the veracity of the Roman Church.

_________________
"That historical explanation cannot deal in absolutes and cannot adduce sufficient causes greatly irritates some simple and impatient souls"
E. P. Thompson, The Poverty of Theory


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 25 May 2011 5:14 am 
Offline
Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2011 12:02 pm
Posts: 1801
lovuian wrote:
I'm with TCP and Hot Spur and Caelum





WAIT - what am I being tagged with? :shock:

_________________
"That historical explanation cannot deal in absolutes and cannot adduce sufficient causes greatly irritates some simple and impatient souls"
E. P. Thompson, The Poverty of Theory


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baphomet
PostPosted: 25 May 2011 8:21 am 
Offline
Emperor
User avatar

Joined: 22 Jun 2009 10:28 pm
Posts: 5441
Location: NA
hotspur wrote:
lovuian wrote:
I'm with TCP and Hot Spur and Caelum





WAIT - what am I being tagged with? :shock:


You're the peanutty gallery.

_________________
************


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 204 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group