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PostPosted: 31 Jul 2010 3:35 am 
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The Templars said that the man that Pilate crucified was not Jesus Christ.

This is interesting because the Koran says precisely the same.

Quote:
[4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.

Sura 4:157

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PostPosted: 31 Jul 2010 3:51 pm 
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roscoe wrote:
The Templars said that the man that Pilate crucified was not Jesus Christ.



Did they?
Do you have a reference for that please?


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PostPosted: 31 Jul 2010 3:59 pm 
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Did they?
Do you have a reference for that please?


Tingra,

Really, i was going to ask the same thing. But he will just say he set this question up deliberatly so that the 'usual' crowd will repsond and fall into his trap he set.


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PostPosted: 31 Jul 2010 4:05 pm 
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NO....he must have real proper evidence or he would never have made that statement, not Roscoe. He would never bullshit us would he? :lol:


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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2010 4:04 am 
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tingra wrote:
roscoe wrote:
The Templars said that the man that Pilate crucified was not Jesus Christ.



Did they?
Do you have a reference for that please?


Perhaps I should ask you for any independant reference that Jesus ever existed. That should keep you busy for a while.

Well if you were to use your brain you'd be able to figure it out about the Templars.

The Vatican has produced 800 documents showing the Templar Trials for public scrutiny.

Try them. If you REALLY want to know then YOU do the work. or are you, as I suspect, just merely having a go at me and couldn't care less?

So, tell me why 1.5 billion muslims are told that Jesus wasn't crucified?

You people suffer for a form of word blindness. Cue Nowhere Man - The Beatles

"He's as blind as he can be, just sees what he wants to see."

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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2010 8:35 am 
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so thats a NO then :lol: .....thought so :roll:


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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2010 9:24 am 
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The Vatican has produced 800 documents showing the Templar Trials for public scrutiny.

yes i know, i have seen them....have you?


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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2010 1:25 pm 
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So, tell me why 1.5 billion muslims are told that Jesus wasn't crucified?

The same reason why billions of Christians believe he was 'resurrected'. Because they have been indoctrinated into their beliefs.

Hows that?

And while we are at it, who cares if 1.5 billion muslims dont believe Jesus was crucified. Were they there? Do they really know? Does anyone really know what happened? Why does citing what 1.5 billion muslims believe have any bearing at all on what happened 2000 years ago?

And for that matter, what did the Knights Templar 'really know'? 1000 years after the event?

Your arguments are never good enough Roscoe.

You dont think for yourself. You just spout these irrelevancies and from that we are suppose to think there is a big conspiracy .....you could have all the documents in the world and you would never know.

The Romans were excellent managers and kept good records. If we turned up a lost dossier of Roman files about crucifixions that took place between AD30 and AD33 in Judaea we would have alot more to go on!And that is the sort of evidence we need.

And i bet the name Jesus Christ would not be even listed .... it would be under a different name for a start *sigh*


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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2010 3:05 pm 
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tingra wrote:
so thats a NO then :lol: .....thought so :roll:


No that's a if you want to know go look for yourself.

The Church released the Templar documents in 2007. Go look.

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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2010 3:10 pm 
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bergeredearcadie wrote:
So, tell me why 1.5 billion muslims are told that Jesus wasn't crucified?

The same reason why billions of Christians believe he was 'resurrected'. Because they have been indoctrinated into their beliefs.

Hows that?

And while we are at it, who cares if 1.5 billion muslims dont believe Jesus was crucified. Were they there? Do they really know? Does anyone really know what happened? Why does citing what 1.5 billion muslims believe have any bearing at all on what happened 2000 years ago?

And for that matter, what did the Knights Templar 'really know'? 1000 years after the event?

Your arguments are never good enough Roscoe.

You dont think for yourself. You just spout these irrelevancies and from that we are suppose to think there is a big conspiracy .....you could have all the documents in the world and you would never know.

The Romans were excellent managers and kept good records. If we turned up a lost dossier of Roman files about crucifixions that took place between AD30 and AD33 in Judaea we would have alot more to go on!And that is the sort of evidence we need.

And i bet the name Jesus Christ would not be even listed .... it would be under a different name for a start *sigh*


How about Yehoshua ben Yosef.

Tell you what I do know.

People gave Sauniere lots of money and chances are they BELIEVED something enough to part with their money. So it's not really about the truth it's about what people BELIEVED to be the truth.

How's that for thinking for myself?

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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2010 3:18 pm 
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How's that for thinking for myself?

Yeh, its about your level!


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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2010 3:29 pm 
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bergeredearcadie wrote:
How's that for thinking for myself?

Yeh, its about your level!


Way above yours methinks.

I've given you enough time to absolve yourself.

Try the Chinon Document

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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2010 3:34 pm 
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tingra wrote:
The Vatican has produced 800 documents showing the Templar Trials for public scrutiny.

yes i know, i have seen them....have you?


I would bet that you haven't.

Have I seen them? What would you have me say? If I said yes then you wouldn't believe me, if I said no I wouldn't be telling the truth.

You acquiring a high opinion of me does not ride high in my ambitions. Please yourself.

Don't worry, I'm attacking the Catholic Church I fully expect to be hated. In fact if you didn't I'd think I wasn't being effective enough.

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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2010 4:13 pm 
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Way above yours methinks.

LOL.

If you say so:

Arrogant (ˈærəɡənt)

— adj
having or showing an exaggerated opinion of one's own importance, merit, ability, etc; conceited; overbearingly proud:


Or the Urban Dictionary definition@

"A person who makes, a sometimes irrelevant, presumptuous argument inconsiderately of all related topics to said argument and with a sense of self importance that overshadows their ability to comprehend any variation of their own argument, let alone any overriding counter argument of any sort, as at all relevant. For this reason arrogance can be described as a form of delusion. Arrogance can often be confused with complacency. The two are very similar but never cross in any way shape or form for the simple reason that arrogance springs out of an argument that is presumptuous, naive and wrong whereas complacency comes out of an argument presented by an experienced individual who understands that, besides the occasional fluke, the underlying principle on which their argument is based is correct. All who refer to complacency as arrogance therefore are unable to accept any possibility that their own stance is incorrect and are therefore arrogant themselves. Arrogance has a common occurrence in bitching as it is sometimes used as a coping mechanism for people who are highly insecure and is rarely pointed out, to someone's face, by anyone who lacks a backbone."


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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2010 4:16 pm 
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would bet that you haven't.

Have I seen them? What would you have me say? If I said yes then you wouldn't believe me, if I said no I wouldn't be telling the truth.

You acquiring a high opinion of me does not ride high in my ambitions.


You are so monotonous and boring.
You always resort to this kind of stuff.

Tingra, i asked him exactly the same about his stupid reference quote about the Temlars before, and this is what he said too.

Roscoe, no one has a high opinion of you at all. And no-one gives a shite about what you have to say, because you dont know what you are talking about.

Go and play with Rennes and Dippity and Lovuian :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2010 4:47 pm 
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bergeredearcadie wrote:
would bet that you haven't.

Have I seen them? What would you have me say? If I said yes then you wouldn't believe me, if I said no I wouldn't be telling the truth.

You acquiring a high opinion of me does not ride high in my ambitions.


You are so monotonous and boring.
You always resort to this kind of stuff.

Tingra, i asked him exactly the same about his stupid reference quote about the Temlars before, and this is what he said too.

Roscoe, no one has a high opinion of you at all. And no-one gives a shite about what you have to say, because you dont know what you are talking about.

Go and play with Rennes and Dippity and Lovuian :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


So why are you spending all of this time typing out this rubbish?

You want reference? OK right after you give me reference that Jesus ever existed. Double standards darling.

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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2010 3:37 am 
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Roger wrote:
Roscoe's reference seems to be the Chinon Absolution parchment. Obviously, Roscoe has never read the document. Besides, if he can't use it, he'll merely say it's a Roman Church conspiracy.

One cannot rationally argue with someone who isn't at all rational.


And you haven't read it either in fact up until about six months ago you didn't even know of its existence.

You know this is amazing all of this hot air and yet nobody but nobody comments on the FACT that the Templars are merely repeating precisely what they undoubtedly learned from their Islamic foes during the crusades.

The fact that it was believed that Jesus was never crucified is written as plain as day in the Koran at Sura 4:157.

Spin that one Roger?

Oh and since I've got your attention yet again, albeit to have a go at me, tell me about the pagan icon in front of the Pope's residence?

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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2010 7:42 am 
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Roger wrote:
I not only read it, but held it in my hand before you'd ever heard of it.
It isn't what you seem to think it is.

IF the Templars had ever promoted that well-known Islamic belief, THEN it would be a
'fact'. HOWEVER, since they did not ever promote such a belief, then it remains a Roscovian FANTASY.

Like pretty much all of your fanciful re-writing of history (yes, poppet, they WERE Benedictines. those "mysterious" Orval monks!)


Don't believe you

A Rogerian FANTASY. You know I think that sometimes you actually believe your own propaganda.

If you had read it then you'd know.

Oh and yes they were Benedictines inasmuch as any Order not assigned to any central Abbey is usually arbitrarily labelled Benedictine.

Hey maybe they were Carthusian. How's it go? "The Cross is steady whilst the world is turning" - It sure is :wink:

Yes the Carthusians, they roll their own it seems. Is this too much for you bear? U R suspicious of this no doubt. Roseline de Villeneuve was a Carthusian nun. Feast day January 17th. Her brother Hélion de Villeneuve was Grand Master of the Knights of St. John from 1319 to 1346. Someone remind me when the Knights of St John were formed?

What does the website at Orval say on this matter Roger? You know, those people who actually live there?

Any news on your answer to the Pagan Icon outside Big Daddy's House.

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Last edited by roscoe on 02 Aug 2010 9:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2010 9:50 am 
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Dont try to change the subject, where is YOUR proof that the Templars didnt believe Jesus was crucified Roscoe?
cmon, practice what you preach.....show us the evidence.
You accuse everyone else of lying so show us your proof you have seen those documents that incidently DO NOT say anything about the Templars denying the crucifiction, this is your chance to redeem yourself :D


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2010 9:54 am 
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tingra wrote:
Dont try to change the subject, where is YOUR proof that the Templars didnt believe Jesus was crucified Roscoe?
cmon, practice what you preach.....show us the evidence.
You accuse everyone else of lying so show us your proof you have seen those documents that incidently DO NOT say anything about the Templars denying the crucifiction, this is your chance to redeem yourself :D


No problem

Right after you show me your PROOF that Jesus ever existed. That's ramming your double standards right where the sun don't shine.

Anyway it was Roger who changed the subject. It was he who reintroduced his Orval/benedictine gambit and got thoroughly spanked.

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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2010 10:05 am 
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roscoe wrote:
tingra wrote:
Dont try to change the subject, where is YOUR proof that the Templars didnt believe Jesus was crucified Roscoe?
cmon, practice what you preach.....show us the evidence.
You accuse everyone else of lying so show us your proof you have seen those documents that incidently DO NOT say anything about the Templars denying the crucifiction, this is your chance to redeem yourself :D


No problem

Right after you show me your PROOF that Jesus ever existed. That's ramming your double standards right where the sun don't shine.


charming im sure :lol:
I dont believe Jesus existed and proving it either way doesnt interest me so why would i waste time on it?..... Of course there is no proof :roll:
Now...back to the Templars....Show the evidence that states the Templars denied the crucifiction of Jesus, dont be a hypocrite and accuse others of double standards when you are obviously guilty of that yourself, you started this thread to prove a point so go on then, PROVE IT.


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2010 10:08 am 
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from the Jewish virtual Library:

Quote:
Concerning Jesus' executioner, Pontius Pilate, we have a considerable body of data that contradicts the largely sympathetic portrayal of him in the New Testament. Even among the long line of cruel procurators who ruled Judea, Pilate stood out as a notoriously vicious man. He eventually was replaced after murdering a group of Samaritans: The Romans realized that keeping him in power would only provoke continual rebellions. The gentle, kindhearted Pilate of the New Testament—who in his "heart of hearts" really did not want to harm Jesus is fictional. Like most fictions, the story was created with a purpose. When the New Testament was written, Christianity was banned by Roman law. The Romans, well aware that they had executed Christianity's founder—indeed the reference to Jesus' crucifixion by the Roman historian Tacitus is among the earliest allusions to him outside the New Testament—had no reason to rescind their anti-Christian legislation. Christianity's only hope for gaining legitimacy was to "prove" to Rome that its crucifixion of Jesus had been a terrible error, and had only come about because the Jews forced Pilate to do it. Thus, the New Testament depicts Pilate as wishing to spare Jesus from punishment, only to be stymied by a large Jewish mob yelling, "Crucify him." The account ignores one simple fact. Pilate's power in Judea was absolute. Had he wanted to absolve Jesus, he would have done so: He certainly would not have allowed a mob of Jews, whom he detested, to force him into killing someone whom he admired.

Crucifixion itself, a Roman form of execution, was forbidden by Jewish law because it was torture. Some 50,000 to 100,000 Jews were themselves crucified by the Romans in the first century. How ironic, therefore, that Jews have historically been associated with the cross as the ones who brought about Jesus' crucifixion.

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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2010 10:19 am 
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And?
Where is the PROOF that the Templars denied the crucifiction?
practice what you preach....show the evidence.


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2010 10:36 am 
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tingra wrote:
And?
Where is the PROOF that the Templars denied the crucifiction?
practice what you preach....show the evidence.


I've already told you where to look. Are you terminally stupid or what?

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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2010 10:48 am 
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roscoe wrote:
tingra wrote:
And?
Where is the PROOF that the Templars denied the crucifiction?
practice what you preach....show the evidence.


I've already told you where to look. Are you terminally stupid or what?


Your insults dont bother me :lol:, you always resort to this kind of behaviour when anyone questions you....very childish really but i understand its the only way you know how to express yourself :roll:
Roscoe, there is nowhere to look because there is NO evidence.
The vatican documents DO NOT say the Templars denied the crucifiction, there is NO PROOF that the Templars were anything other than Christian knights :lol:
YOU started this thread to prove a point....so YOU prove it.


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