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 Post subject: St Teresa de Avila
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2008 5:51 am 
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Think Carmelites

Did you know that Pythagoras spent a large part of his life on Mount Carmel?

Pentemychos

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 Post subject: Re: St Teresa de Avila
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2008 12:03 am 
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roscoe wrote:
Think Carmelites

Did you know that Pythagoras spent a large part of his life on Mount Carmel?

Pentemychos


OK, so a sixth century BC Greek religious philosopher and mathematician spent time on a mountain in northern Israel famed for it's religious significance at the time..........is this strange? And what has this to do with a Carmelite reformist?

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PostPosted: 12 Mar 2008 3:50 am 
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"The Powers whose name and shape no creature knows
Have pulled the Immortal Rose,
And though the Seven Lights bowed down their dance and wept
The Polar Dragon slept
His heavy rings uncoiled from glimmering deep to deep
When will he awake from his sleep."

W B Yates

"I am the Rose of Sharon, the lily of the valleys"

Song of Solomon 2:1

Carmel overlooks the Valley of Sharon

My first posting started with the word THINK if I said any more of this Legend I would be giving too much away. Like giving Gold away.

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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2008 5:54 am 
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roscoe wrote:
"The Powers whose name and shape no creature knows
Have pulled the Immortal Rose,
And though the Seven Lights bowed down their dance and wept
The Polar Dragon slept
His heavy rings uncoiled from glimmering deep to deep
When will he awake from his sleep."

W B Yates

"I am the Rose of Sharon, the lily of the valleys"

Song of Solomon 2:1

Carmel overlooks the Valley of Sharon

My first posting started with the word THINK if I said any more of this Legend I would be giving too much away. Like giving Gold away.


I presume you are referring to YEats, Irish poet...."I would mould a world of fire and dew"...(Land of Heart's Desire).
And of course the Rose of Sharon, in other words, Christ.
Are you trying to tease me into revealing some of the 18th Degree Roscoe?
I don't have a lot of time to think, go on, give me the gold.

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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2008 6:40 am 
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rs2008 wrote:

I presume you are referring to YEats, Irish poet...."I would mould a world of fire and dew"...(Land of Heart's Desire).
And of course the Rose of Sharon, in other words, Christ.
Are you trying to tease me into revealing some of the 18th Degree Roscoe?
I don't have a lot of time to think, go on, give me the gold.


Ah yes typing error, I was thinking of someone else.

18th Degree? Isn't that today or is it next Thursday?

The mention of Raphael might be significant.

Give you the Gold? No that's Things To Be Read.

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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2008 11:29 pm 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2008 3:43 am 
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jakeabf wrote:
His math stood the test of time but his extra-curricular activity was nothing to write home about- so why are ya tooting Pythagoros' horn and not Theresa's or John of the Cross.


Cassini might be interested.

Viva Angelina

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15 Mar 2008 1:18 am 
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roscoe wrote:
jakeabf wrote:
His math stood the test of time but his extra-curricular activity was nothing to write home about- so why are ya tooting Pythagoros' horn and not Theresa's or John of the Cross.


Cassini might be interested.

Viva Angelina


It was my understanding that a2+b2=c2 was not Pythagorean but rather Babylonian, however he did offer the first proof of the same.
I too would like to know which peculiar tangent Roscoe is on, I've read the links, now what? :?:

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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2008 12:59 am 
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 Post subject: Church of Carmel
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2008 5:03 am 
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Prominent member of the Church of Carmel was Lady Caithness. Maria de Marietegui, Lady Marie Caithness, the Duchess de Medina Pomar, was of Spanish birth. She was approached around 1882 by Madame H.P.Blavatsky, Colonol Olcott, and Annie Besant, to establish the French branch of the Theosophical Society. She was a disciple of Anna Kingsford who eventually did lead the French Theosophical society. Anna Kingsford wrote "Clothed with the Sun".

She was the wife of The Rev. John Sinclair who, as the Earl of Caithness was the head of the Sinclair Templar family of Rosslyn Chapel fame. He wrote:

"I envy not the man who can climb Schiehallion without experiencing certain emotions of reverential awe, which raise the thoughts of the heart from earthly to heavenly things. I can truly say that in my climbings of the dear mountain, I invariably felt myself, as it were, in a sweet atmosphere of Bible imagery, thinking of Moses, Elijah, the Saviour, and others, when they climbed those sacred mountains in the east, and there held communion with the great Father of spirits....The poem entitled, 'The Second Sight: A Rannoch Mystery,' has got at least this one merit that it is an attempt to picture out a form of belief in the superhuman which has probably existed among the people of the district for many hundreds of years. In former times it was the males that were the seers of the Rannoch Israel; but in our day the Deborahs and the Huldahs have taken up the role of revealing the mysteries of the present, the distant, and the future."

Lady Caithness also knew Jules Dionel the librarian at Carcassone during the time Sauniere and Boudet were alive.

Dionel was a the founder of the Gnostic Church and knew Peladan who once boasted that he had found the tomb of Jesus.

Dionel later left the Gnostic church he had formed became a Catholic and wrote Lucifer Unmasked. He knew Emma Calve. Dionel was a Cathar expert.

The Church of Carmel was condemned by the Catholic Church

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PostPosted: 15 Apr 2008 9:13 pm 
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PostPosted: 16 Apr 2008 12:19 am 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2008 4:17 am 
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The church of Carmel was formerly condemned by the Catholic church in 1848.

Stanislas de Guaita of the Rosicrucian Brotherhood and a Martinist was famously involved in a Black Magic duel with defrocked Catholic priest Joseph Antoine Boullan of the Church of Carmel.

de Guaita and Oswald Wirth (both Martinists along with Emma Calve) had tried to infiltrate the Church of Carmel. de Guaita was a descendent of the Lombard family.

Gino Sandri is a Martinist as well as billing himself as the Secretary of the Priory of Sion. Robert Amadou is also a Martinist and a former member of Alpha Galates. Tsar Nicolas II became a Martinist after he invited Papus to Tsarkoïe Selo in 1900 for advice on how to deal with revolutionaries. Being a RUS he would do.

Sandri wrote a history on the Rectified Scottish Rite of Freemasonry this lodge is known in France as Le Ordre de Chevalier Bienfaisant de la Cité Sainte. The Priory of Sion is/was a front for public consumption. You will of course note that the Cité Sainte (holy City) is Sion and a Priory is somewhere you go into prior to going into something else. In short a recruiting booth

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Le Serpent Rouge - Scorpio

Vision céleste pour celui qui me souvient des quatres oeuvres de Em. SIGNOL autour de la ligne du Méridien, au choeur même du sanctuaire d'où rayonne cette source d'amour des uns pour les autres, je pivote sur moi-même passant du regard la rose du P à celle de l'S, puis de l'S au P ... et la spirale dans mon esprit devenant comme un poulpe monstrueux expulsant son encre, les ténèbres absorbent la lumière, j'ai le vertige et je porte ma main à ma bouche mordant instinctivement ma paume, peut-être comme OLIER dans son cerceuil. Malédiction, je comprends la vérité, IL EST PASSE, mais lui aussi en faisant LE BIEN, ainsi que xxxxxxxx CELUI de la tombe fleurie . Mais combien ont saccagé la MAISON, ne laissant que des cadavres embaumés et nombres de métaux qu'ils n'avaient pu emporter. Quel étrange mystère recèle le nouveau temple de SALOMON édifié par les enfants de Saint VINCENT.


Paul Vincent de Fleury married Gabrielle who was the daughter of Marie de Negri d'Ables d'Hautpoul Countess of Blanchefort. The Fauteuil de Diable (Devils Armchair) was carved for their son Paul Urbain de Fleury and he is buried in Rennes les Bains close to another tomb that has the phrase "IL EST PASSE EN FAISANT LE BIEN" on it

Try putting the phrase IL EST PASSE into Babelfish

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PostPosted: 16 Apr 2008 4:33 am 
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jakeabf wrote:
Roscoe,

A wanna-be huckster Eugene Vaintras started a gnostic-spin carmel church, as part of the gnostic inspired martinist gnostic catholic church which traced its roots to catharism, so why not come out and be up front about this?.


Yes he had a vision of the Archangel Michael.

Vintras also thought he was the reincarnated prophet Elijah who would establish a new religious order. But more interesting is that Vintras stated that he was told that Charles Naundorf was the ' true king of France'. It is generally known that several of the well-known French and Belgian occultists of the first half of the 20th century were "Naundorfists".

True king of France? Hmm! Now where have I heard that before?

So tell me who are these Rosicrucians you keep mentioning? At the last count I reached 13 different branches and I'm still counting?

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PostPosted: 16 Apr 2008 6:29 am 
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In one of Doinel's seances a spirit allegedly gave the following message to Doinel:

"The One has brought forth One, then One and the Three are but One: The Father, The Word and the Thought. Establish my Gnostic Church. "

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Doinel founded the Gnostic church exactly one year before Sauniere wrote the message: Discovery of a tomb...etc. He proclaimed 1890 "Era of Gnostis Restored" and took the name Tau Valentin. All his gnostic bishops had the name Tau (something): Papus was Tau Vincent and was Gnostic Bishop of Toulouse. St Anthony the Hermit has Tau on his shoulder in the Teniers painting.

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There's St Anthony and St Paul being fed Bread and Salt by a Raven

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2008 12:37 pm 
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Roger wrote:
Quote:
You will of course note that the Cité Sainte (holy City) is Sion and a Priory is somewhere you go into prior to going into something else. In short a recruiting booth


This is what happens when you attempt linguistics whilst on LSD :roll:


You'd better stop taking it then. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with my translation. You know, one day there be a posting from you that's both non-pedantic and non negative.

Hope I live that long......Prat!

To everyone else:

He's relying on everyone else not to bother checking this out for themselves. Allow me:

Quote:
Holy Order of Knights Beneficent of the Holy City


The Knights Beneficent of the Holy City, more commonly referred to as Chevaliers Bienfaisant de la Cité Sainte (CBCS), took its rise following a Convention held at Wilhelmsbad in 1782 and is the oldest order connected with freemasonry which has had a continuous existence. It is derived from the Rite of Strict Observance erected in 1754, the foundation of which was attributed to Baron von Hund; it propounded a theory that freemasonry was developed directly from the Crusading Templars, embodying a belief that the Order was ruled by ‘unknown superiors’. At one time it had many Provinces scattered throughout Europe, but slowly over some 28 years the influence of the Strict Observance waned and it was finally reconstructed to become the Scottish Rectified Rite (CBCS). The degrees of the Order (not fully worked by all Priories) are those practised in the Lodge of St Andrew and The Order of the Interior, operating under the Great Priory of Helvetia. The grades of the Rite are structured as under:
Conferred in a Symbolic Lodge:
1. Entered Apprentice
2. Fellowcraft
3. Master Mason
Conferred in a Great Priory
4a. Scottish Master of St Andrew: This grade makes reference to the divine tradition of the Temple of Solomon and the abiding presence of the Holy Shekinah. It also infers that while the first Temple was laid to ruins there still remained within the sacred knowledge of the God of Israel.
4b. Perfect Master of St Andrew: Here the legend of the second Temple is developed, exhorting the true seeker to penetrate the tomb of Hiram in search of the lost word. His labours are rewarded by the allegorical personality of the Master Builder being raised like a veil to reveal the risen Christ and thereby unfolds a Christian interpretation of the letters forming the name of our GM; it also hints at the coming of the New Jerusalem, the mystic Zion.
5. Squire Novice: This grade, like that of a Knight, is conferred in a Commandery and recounts a legend that at the dawn of the Christian era, wise and illuminated sages dwelling within the Holy City were converted to Christianity by St Mark[See Note below] . The secret work of initiation required that their doctrine be transmitted by secret oral tradition, which was done and culminated in the Knights Templar who were reputed to be the latter custodians of this divine knowledge.
6. Knight Beneficent of the Holy City: In the final grade it is revealed to the Novice that at the zenith of ancient Egyptian civilisation and even with Orpheus, Pythagoras and Pluto a religious dogma existed, which was identical with that of Christianity. It is further explained that the Chivalry of the Holy City was manifested in good works being the perfect path to God and by the diffusion of such works ensuring the greatest good to the human family and the final attainment of the true enlightenment.
In addition to Switzerland there are today five other Great Priories in the world, situated in the following countries USA (erected 1934), France (1935), England (1937), Germany (1959) and Belgium (1986). In England the CBCS is controlled by the Great Priory of the United Military, Religious and Masonic Order of the Temple etc, but little is known of its membership as meetings are very infrequent and normally only held when a new member is received.


Note:

One man converted by St Mark was a man called ORMUS

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2008 9:07 pm 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2008 3:05 am 
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Roger wrote:
Roscoe, you poor dear boy, your "translation" is crap and you know it. Attempting to make a pun - AND attributing a special significance to it - when the original language can allow no such pun (Prieure vs. Priory and "prior" ~ a perfect example of what appears to be rosicrucian non-reasoning overreach).

I was charitably only pointing out that glaring inconsistency in logic, but since you so usefully bring up that you base your redolent argument on Baron von Hund, I'm sure that readers will check it for themselves and verify that he's universally acclaimed as a rather creative fraud as to his Templar claims, and that even honest (academic and serious) Masonic historians view him as such. The very same can be said of Chevalier Ramsay who's probably next on the list of fraudulent authorities that you'll trot out in support of your illuminated theories.

You're simply not a valid interlocutor. I hope the guru business is kind to you. So long, dillweed.


Notice the nebulous argument here. He doesn't actually say which part of the translation is wrong. More negativity and pedantry (I'm starting to wonder why he's doing this - he doth protest too much methinks)

Here's the Oxford English Dictionary of the phrase Great Priory.

"a province of the Knights of St John under a Grand Prior."

Secondly

I'm getting a little tired of repeating this. But you appear to be either too thick or you don't want to understand.

We are not concerned with finding the truth (it would be nice) we are concerned with finding what people believed to be the truth.

Now I realise that you have difficulty dealing with the concept and this is why you continually ignore it. But that is the criteria I work to, if you think that I am repeating this masonic mumbo jumbo because I myself believe it then you truly are thick. I call my website rose-croix-veritas because it is a direct sleight against Paul Smith's website entitled Priory of Sion and incidently I now get more hits than he does. Paul Smith isn't in the Priory of Sion and I'm not a Rosicrucian.

Now if you wish to speak a language made up by yourself and other than English and French then that's your privilege. But your arguments are lame at best and your nebulous non-commital pedantry is fooling nobody. You are actually starting to imitate Hugh Montifiore's arguments at the beginning of Holy Blood Holy Grail. i.e. Utterly stupid but totally relying on the ignorance of passive observers. But in way this is good for me because this is the kind of stupid daft opposition that I will get in the near future. Don't get too upset jakeabf isn't even worth answering, one day he'll realise he's being ignored and simply go away. You can stay, I need people like you to practice on.

Here's the kind of thing that is required from you, a statement straight and to the point.

What is wrong with my translation?

What is wrong with the logic

Please no altering the argument, no more waffle again like the one in your quote above with your nebulous innuendos attempting to play to the audience.

Just answer me straight, if you can that is.

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 Post subject: DID YOU SEE THIS?
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2008 3:53 am 
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The debunkers anthem
Sung to Gilbert & Sullivan. "I am the very model of a modern Major
General".

I am the very model of the Art of trite debunkery.
Why give something my attention rather perform my own perfunctory.
The reason that I do it is an inner fear of ridicule
It's easier to scoff at than to use it as a knowledge tool.

The mindless, dumb acceptance of a common line philosophy
Is easier to embrace than to have people making fun of me.
I always hold allegiance to the common mindless knowledge pool
By giving my twopenneth with a well placed line of ridicule.

Who cares if I learn something that will make me understand
Rather continue blind acceptance of the knowledge found at hand.
Why I may indeed complain that my subject base is bogging down.
But then why rock the boat again and be taken once more to be a clown.

I'm am of course a coward but then it seems that there are lots of us.
Who climb on things we're told to like commuters on an omnibus.
If I should then see something which will make me see things differently
Why I must cover my eyes and ears again in case I then catch sophistry

I delude myself I'm winning because my comrades come in helping me,
The fact that they are yesmen is of course a triviality.
I can use the groupthink cushion by which I gain my confidence
and bolster up my ego in a melee of supercillience.

I care nothing of the motives of the shakers and the movers
Or whether they know something which in knowledge may improve us.
Or whether they have knowledge of which our science may not know.
It really makes me nervous when they break the status quo.

It matters not to me whether the things these people say
Are important and have caused our lives to take a different way,
Or even if our historians are just giving us legenda,
Or whether many deaths are caused by an alternative agenda.

And last I must not forget my use of straw men and of pedantry
and concentrate on 'how' rather than 'what' it is which people say.
By doing this I can of course divert attention to the irrelevant
and give observers the impression of the allusion to white elephant.


© roscoe

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PostPosted: 17 Apr 2008 8:02 pm 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2008 3:45 am 
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Roger wrote:
Quote:
What is wrong with my translation?

What is wrong with the logic ?



That question HAS to be disingenuous, unless you're actually dumber than I think you are (which boggles the imagination).

Let me explain, even though you're absolutely not worth it.

When you have to translate a phrase, in order to make a pun that cannot work in the language of origin, and then use that addle-pated logic in the attempt to prove a point, all that you have proven is that you're a convicted imbecile.

Clear enough for you?

Now go away, and stop nipping at the heels of the adults here.


I smell what you're shovelling.

It's funny I don't have to call you names in order to force my point. By this you shall know the speakers of the truth.

Now the questions you DIDN'T answer were, which I just knew you'd try to waffle your why out of, are:

What is wrong with the translation?

and

What is wrong with the logic?

So off you go again only this time concentrate on the specific statements I made and stop trying to be nebulous and evasive. It is fooling nobody.

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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2008 4:17 am 
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Roger wrote:
Quote:
Now the questions you DIDN'T answer were, which I just knew you'd try to waffle your why out of, are:

What is wrong with the translation?

and

What is wrong with the logic?



Since this is specifically what I addressed, we are left with the conclusion that you weren't being disingenuous and that you simply lack the most basic comprehension skills. I shan't further chastise the handicapped. Remember to take your medications.


Look it isn't difficult, although it appears to be giving you some trouble. For a moment I thought you were just being evasive but I now think it is because you are thick. But understand this if you understand nothing else, your attempts at bluff are ALWAYS called by me. Got that?

You specifically said there was something wrong with the translation of the phrase Cité Sainte

What is wrong with it?

We'll deal with the logic bit later as it appears you can only handle one thing at a time.

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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2008 9:07 pm 
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Roger,

I take for granted you are correct, as you usually are when it comes to things French, but I wonder for humor's sake, how else can that phrase be tweaked?

Can a French comedian do a stand-up Woody Allen take on it? I can't comprehend Roscoe's feeble attempt at spinning priory to arrive at his viewpoint you so aptly pointed out as being babble.

Is Roscoe known anywhere on the 'Net as a purveyor of black humor? Is this a belated intro to his as yet unknown aspect of ultra-subtle underwhelm me humor?

I would not know a French joke if i heard one and then had it translated to boot. I lived in Europe 40+ years now and never encountered a French comedian is Roscoe something of a breakthru?

I assume the French have their notion as to what constitutes humor just like Germans do, Scandinavians do, even though I understand German and Swedish it still boggles my mind at what these folk laugh at.

Its like starting to tell a joke and leave out the punch line and then move on to what portends to be the next humor anecdote. Roger, be so kind and let us mere mortals in on Roscoe's humor.

Jake


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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2008 6:31 am 
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You specifically said there was something wrong with the translation of the phrase Cité Sainte

I said it means Holy City

What is wrong with this translation?

How many Holy Cities can you name from western culture?

Here's the definition of the word Priory from the several Dictionaries.

pri·o·ry /ˈpraɪəri/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[prahy-uh-ree] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -ries.

a religious house governed by a prior or prioress, often dependent upon an abbey.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1250–1300; ME priorie < ML priōria. See prior2, -y3]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This pri·or·y Audio Help (prī'ə-rē) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. pri·or·ies

A monastery governed by a prior or a convent governed by a prioress.


The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
priory

c.1290, from Anglo-Fr. priorie (c.1240), from M.L. prioria "monastery governed by a prior," from L. prior (see prior (n.)).

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper
WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This priory

noun

religious residence in a monastery governed by a prior or a convent governed by a prioress

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.

That was the definition of the word Priory.

Here is the definition of the word Pedantry

ped·ant·ry /ˈpɛdntri/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ped-n-tree] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -ries.

1. the character, qualities, practices, etc., of a pedant, esp. undue display of learning.
2. slavish attention to rules, details, etc.
3. an instance of being pedantic: the pedantries of modern criticism.


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[Origin: 1575–85; It pedanteria. See pedant, -ry]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This ped·ant·ry Audio Help (pěd'n-trē) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. ped·ant·ries

Pedantic attention to detail or rules.
An instance of pedantic behavior.
The habit of mind or manner characteristic of a pedant.


(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This pedantry

noun
an ostentatious and inappropriate display of learning

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
Pedantry

Ped"ant*ry\, n. [Cf. F. p['e]danterie.] The act, character, or manners of a pedant; vain ostentation of learning. "This pedantry of quotation." --Cowley.

'T is a practice that savors much of pedantry. --Sir T. Browne. Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
On-line Medical Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
pedantry

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 Post subject: here we go again,,,
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2008 10:42 pm 
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Grand Master

Joined: 04 Aug 2007 7:08 pm
Posts: 1234
Location: scandinavia
Roger,

I will ask for yer lingo expertise again 'cuz I see in the word pedant a field day for comedians who speak with a lisp.

Do known French comedians also utilize a lisp to give the punch line anecdote its unique surprise?

This I heard on a Benny Hill show of him using this lisp effect to benefit his low-brow humor. He shows a guy flirting with a comely lass at a fairground and after going on a few of the attractions, the girl told her wanna be suitor I wanna get weighed, so the wanna-be suitor searches the fairgrounds for a weighing machine. After a couple times back + forth to this weighing machine our wanna-be lothario gives up and as a parting thank you the girl sex, thank you, I had a wovly time.

By any chance, was Roscoe's elaborate pedantic repartee to be considered ultra-dry, lemon squeezed attempt at humor?

jake


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