Arcadia Discussion Zone

Forums dedicated to history's mysteries, Rennes-le-Château and beyond…

Read the Arcadia Forum House Rules

It is currently 23 Nov 2017 10:19 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Serbairou
PostPosted: 23 May 2017 8:49 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 26 Oct 2006 9:11 pm
Posts: 3205
Location: Livingston, Scotland.
Does anyone know anything about the underground river under Serbairous reported in the Midi Libre of 22nd November 1970? The information comes from a M Gaston Sudre and backed up by a M Rousselot the owner of the Hotel de France. Also a Madame Olive says that her son accompanied by several campers from Paris explored the gallery of the old jet mine and discovered an underground river as wide as the Sals and 40cm deep. They followed it for 400 metres but were stopped by a large hole that they could not cross as they had not got the equipment.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Serbairou
PostPosted: 23 May 2017 9:34 pm 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 14 Dec 2010 1:48 am
Posts: 1841
Pilrig wrote:
Does anyone know anything about the underground river under Serbairous reported in the Midi Libre of 22nd November 1970? The information comes from a M Gaston Sudre and backed up by a M Rousselot the owner of the Hotel de France. Also a Madame Olive says that her son accompanied by several campers from Paris explored the gallery of the old jet mine and discovered an underground river as wide as the Sals and 40cm deep. They followed it for 400 metres but were stopped by a large hole that they could not cross as they had not got the equipment.


Never heard about it.
But the story sounds a bit like the Bugarach underground river one.

Wouldn't surprise me though if there was one under Serbairou.

But where does all that water exit? And where does it come from?
The Sals and the Blanque has the sides covered pretty well.

_________________
Roma Victor!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: celtic underground
PostPosted: 24 May 2017 6:20 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 11280
Location: France
Quote:
But where does all that water exit? And where does it come from?


I told you years ago - I even gave you a diagram.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Serbairou
PostPosted: 24 May 2017 7:19 am 
Offline
Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 1717
Location: Razes
Please, post it again.

Hans

_________________
Yes, I am living in a world of shit, but I am alive...and alone.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Serbairou
PostPosted: 24 May 2017 7:33 am 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 12 Aug 2008 2:01 pm
Posts: 1379
Location: Switzerland
The whole area contains most probably a huge underground labyrinth. One can read this out of the writings of the mines in the region (and the mix between warm and cold waters) and if one studies once some of the hill slopes, it gets clear that some of them are really like a Swiss chees. May well be that some of the miners got access to the labyrinth by doing their job...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: celtic underground
PostPosted: 24 May 2017 7:42 am 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 14 Dec 2010 1:48 am
Posts: 1841
Sheila wrote:
Quote:
But where does all that water exit? And where does it come from?


I told you years ago - I even gave you a diagram.


Yes, I know which one you mean.

Didn't however think they were the same. The water Pilrig describes sound more or less sounds like it's situated at ground level. On the diagram it seemed to go deeper into the ground?

_________________
Roma Victor!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Serbairou
PostPosted: 24 May 2017 7:54 am 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 14 Dec 2010 1:48 am
Posts: 1841
fmh999 wrote:
The whole area contains most probably a huge underground labyrinth. One can read this out of the writings of the mines in the region (and the mix between warm and cold waters) and if one studies once some of the hill slopes, it gets clear that some of them are really like a Swiss chees. May well be that some of the miners got access to the labyrinth by doing their job...


Long time ago I posted photos of large, still standing, bridge foundations near Source de la Madeleine.
I never seen any information of a bridge there.
And I have difficulties piecing the bridge together with the old road.
Would you suppose this was a bridge used by the miners of Serbairou?

As a side note, the original purpose of the Pont Romain, between La Vialasse and Bugarach has had me thinking for a long time...
You can easily get to La Vialasse from Bugarach going bort north and south of the Blanque, so why was that bridge built? There are plenty of natural crossing points along the Blanque.

_________________
Roma Victor!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Serbairou
PostPosted: 24 May 2017 9:13 am 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 12 Aug 2008 2:01 pm
Posts: 1379
Location: Switzerland
I think we have to distinguish between "mining" and "mining" and what kind of infrastructure was needed to fulfill the purposes.

I can well imagine that we have 2 different approaches: one more based on a kind of "family business" where in the old times a family mined parts of the region with most probably low sophisticated tools and then we have the more "industrialized" approach were troops of miners really worked on a big scale and needed streets and bridges for the heavy tools etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: pont dit romain
PostPosted: 24 May 2017 9:27 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 11280
Location: France
To my mind the pont dit 'romain' is a tell-tale, a répère to see if the FZ was widening.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Serbairou
PostPosted: 24 May 2017 6:09 pm 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 14 Dec 2010 1:48 am
Posts: 1841
In my opinion, that bridge (half way between La Vialasse and Bugarach) is a passing point between Bezu and whatever was on the mountainbody northeast of La Vialasse.

_________________
Roma Victor!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Serbairou
PostPosted: 24 May 2017 6:10 pm 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 14 Dec 2010 1:48 am
Posts: 1841
Try to measure from Bezu to the peak opposite the valley, it matches up.

_________________
Roma Victor!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: pont dit romain
PostPosted: 24 May 2017 9:25 pm 
Offline
Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: 20 Dec 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 1185
Location: Santa Cruz
Sheila wrote:
To my mind the pont dit 'romain' is a tell-tale, a répère to see if the FZ was widening.


I've asked this before, but never got any feedback. Why IS the river so wide there?

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8908576,2.3198222,17z

_________________
"The earlier culture will become a heap of rubble and finally a heap of ashes, but spirit will hover over the ashes."

Ludwig Wittgenstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 May 2017 6:22 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 11280
Location: France
Strange map to use Caelum, it's very vague and not actually correct.

However common sense tells us that a river, in this case Na Blanca, widens out on the sweep of a curve on the outside because she carves her own bed with the force of the water.

Your map is strange because it doesn't show the actual floodplain further downstream at the meander which has dug out and created a quite obvious floodplain, where La Blanque rushes down, overflows, and swamps the flat meadow.

La rivière de Bugarach est dite rivière de nablanque ce qui pourrait être une déformation de l’occitan Na Blanca et signifier la rivière de Madame Blanche.


Good question but.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 May 2017 9:15 pm 
Offline
Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: 20 Dec 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 1185
Location: Santa Cruz
Sheila wrote:
Strange map to use Caelum, it's very vague and not actually correct.

However common sense tells us that a river, in this case Na Blanca, widens out on the sweep of a curve on the outside because she carves her own bed with the force of the water.

Your map is strange because it doesn't show the actual floodplain further downstream at the meander which has dug out and created a quite obvious floodplain, where La Blanque rushes down, overflows, and swamps the flat meadow.

La rivière de Bugarach est dite rivière de nablanque ce qui pourrait être une déformation de l’occitan Na Blanca et signifier la rivière de Madame Blanche.


Good question but.


I realize it's just a Google map, and I do know (as a longtime rafter and kayaker) about the hydrology of bends. Having said that, they do base their maps on something and there is no other such widening anywhere else on the entire La Blanque as far as the map is concerned.

Always on the lookout for those Visigoth river burials! ;-)

_________________
"The earlier culture will become a heap of rubble and finally a heap of ashes, but spirit will hover over the ashes."

Ludwig Wittgenstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Serbairou
PostPosted: 26 May 2017 6:36 am 
Offline
Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 1717
Location: Razes
If there was an ancient tower or a "motte", it is quite possible, that they make the river wider to fortify the place.

I would have done it, if I was the builder.

Have seen the place yesterday.

regards Hans

_________________
Yes, I am living in a world of shit, but I am alive...and alone.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Serbairou
PostPosted: 31 May 2017 8:04 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 26 Oct 2006 9:11 pm
Posts: 3205
Location: Livingston, Scotland.
The information is a bit patchy but M Rouselot of the Hotel de France describes the jade mine whose entrance is near the Rock known as the Dé as in Die (Plural dice). It is probably the one that shows Philippe de Chérisey in the entrance.
“This principal gallery is a hundred metres long and ends in a fairly large vertical shaft. 5 or 6 metres lower down there is an expanse of water with several inaccessible galleries leading off. In the low, slippery gently sloping main gallery two short lateral galleries quickly come to a dead end. “
Madame Olive adds that when people have entered the gallery they have heard underground noises from running water usually after heavy rain.
However no resurgence has been found but it is a complicated process tracking underground rivers. As it involves the use of dyes permission has to be sought from local land owners who tend to get very angry when the water in their cattle troughs turns bright green. There was a recent incident at Rennes-les Bains when the water in the Sals turned red.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group