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 Post subject: Re: Montferrand
PostPosted: 23 Mar 2017 9:02 pm 
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Grand Master

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Sheila wrote:
Where did the stones from this château-fortress go..are the houses built from them ? but this would imply that there were no stone-built houses in the vicinity when the château was active, did the stones get hauled away or did they fall down the ravine into the Coudal ?

http://chateau.over-blog.net/article-2496034.html


Probably a combination. Also consider the entire south side slope is reinforced by a multitude of large stone terraces... from were did those stones come?

Château --> transforms into --> farmland and grassy fields for cattle.

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 Post subject: Montferrand
PostPosted: 23 Mar 2017 9:51 pm 
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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2017 10:32 pm 
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Here it is, what's left of the château, without trees and bushes:

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Shadows are helpful.

What can be seen reminds a little of the ruins over at La Vialasse.

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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2017 5:37 pm 
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M. Julia de Fontenelle
Aperçu topographique et historique des Bains de Rennes, Dissertation sur les eaux minérales de ces mêmes bains. 1814


Quote:
The village of Montferrand is north-east of the baths. Between these two villages there exists Iron mines, Bituminous coal, Lead (II) sulfide known as Galena - the principal ore, and most important compound of lead and an important source of silver, Pyromorphite known as green lead ore, and traces of Plumbagin, which is graphite.


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2017 7:49 pm 
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So, might this tell us that the gold flakes/paillettes found in the stream of Coudal come from somewhere else.

Either from below, coming up with the thermal heat from the mineral laden waters of the underground through the fissures of the faultline in the stream bed itself.

Or from above, and if one studies the streams of the area you will be lead to the source.


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2017 8:03 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
Or from above, and if one studies the streams of the area you will be lead to the source.


From the château, you see em all.

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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2017 8:18 pm 
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and the source is....


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2017 8:37 pm 
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There's not only one.

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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2017 9:01 pm 
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hmm.....


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2017 7:17 am 
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We had a lot of rain the last two days, and the Salz and the Aude have a very high tide.

The water of both rivers are yellow/brown muddy.

Yesterday I was in RlB and I saw, that the waterstream coming out of the source Bains Doux looked exactly muddy and dark like the Salz water.

This is strange, because I thought that the thermal water of Bains Doux comes from deep under the ground, and has nothing to do with the actual water on the surface.

Somebody has also noticed that situation, or has an explanation ?

regards Hans

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2017 8:38 am 
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There is surface water due to the heavy rains coming off the hills and mixing with the thermal water from the Bains Doux that then comes out of the égout . There might be two separate drainage systems that go under the road before the overflow.
Or their canalisation is cracked and the surface hill water is contaminating the égout for the hot waters.


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2017 12:59 pm 
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hans peper wrote:
We had a lot of rain the last two days, and the Salz and the Aude have a very high tide.

The water of both rivers are yellow/brown muddy.

Yesterday I was in RlB and I saw, that the waterstream coming out of the source Bains Doux looked exactly muddy and dark like the Salz water.

This is strange, because I thought that the thermal water of Bains Doux comes from deep under the ground, and has nothing to do with the actual water on the surface.

Somebody has also noticed that situation, or has an explanation ?

regards Hans



Rainy in the Aude?
Here in Stockholm the spring finally arrived today.

Sunny and 15 degrees in the air.
It's good to live again.

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2017 2:33 pm 
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Blue sky over the Razes and 17° slightly wind.

The rain was only " en gang i mellem"

Hilsen
Hans

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2017 2:38 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
There is surface water due to the heavy rains coming off the hills and mixing with the thermal water from the Bains Doux that then comes out of the égout . There might be two separate drainage systems that go under the road before the overflow.
Or their canalisation is cracked and the surface hill water is contaminating the égout for the hot waters.


I agree.
I think, that the tunnel, which delivers the water to Bain Doux has contact to the surface. Maybe from the Ruisseau de Fangalot.
Or did they lead the water from the Ruisseau in to the egout ? Not so good, isn't it.

regards
Hans

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 Post subject: stuff...
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2017 4:02 pm 
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Quote:
Le temple de Rennes ( les Bains), don't j'ai reconnu les traces, les pavés, les murailles et divers autels votifs, gisant encore sous une couche de terre végétale d'un mètre 50 cents d'épaisseur.

Le pavé du temple est formé de grandes dalles de 50 cent. d'épaisseur, 25 de largeur sur 35 de longueur. C'est en creusant des fondations et en déblayant le terrain, que l'on a trouvé le bras d'une femme, tenant à la main un oeuf qu'elle semble présenter aux assistants.
C'était le symbole de la divinité de ces lieux consacrés à la fécondité, croyance qui s'est perpétuée jusques à nos jours et qui fait encore, chaque année, demander à Rennes l'accomplissement du voeu le plus cher à une femme. Les faits, dit-on, y répondent bien souvent.

Esculape était encore le Dieu qu'on venait implorer à Rennes. Certainement, si des fouilles étaient faites dans ce lieu riche de trésors archéologiques, on trouverait le corps de cette statue.


Voyage à Rennes-les-Bains. M. A. Cumenge. 1862.

Publié en 1862 dans le bulletin de la Société Littéraire et Scientifique de Castres (pages 334 à 342). Il figure, entre autres, dans les collections des Archives départementales du Tarn, à la cote Per 93.




The temple of Rennes (les Bains), whose traces I have recognised, the paving stones, walls and various votive altars are still lying under a layer of top-soil a meter and a half thick.

The paving of the temple is made of large slabs 50 centimeters thick, 25 cm wide and 35 cm long. It was by digging foundations and clearing the ground that a woman's arm was found, holding in her hand an egg, which she seems to present to assistants.
It was the symbol of the divinity of these places dedicated to fertility, a belief that has perpetuated itself to the present day wherein every year at Rennes, the divinity is asked to fulfill the dearest wish of a woman. It is said that once accomplished, the wish is pretty much granted.

Asclepius was still the God to be implored at Rennes. Certainly, if excavations were made in this area rich in archaeological treasures, one would find the body of this statue.





So this chap Cumenge may not be the brightest spark when it comes to the local history aspect, but I'm interested in what seems to be his eye-witness accounts of what he saw and heard in 1862


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 Post subject: Cumenge
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2017 4:26 pm 
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Quote:
Avec toutes ces sources minérales et ses rivières salées, Rennes n'aurait pas été habitable sans le secours d'une fontaine trés abondante, d'une eau délicieuse, qui coule à dix mètres au-dessus de la rivière et se répand dans le village.


With all its mineral springs and saline rivers, Rennes would never have been habitable without the aid of a very abundant fountain, with delicious water and which comes out of the ground ten meters above the river and extends through the village.




Hmm, that's interesting......is he talking about the Fontaine du Platane ?

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2017 8:41 pm 
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Voyage à Rennes-les-Bains. M. A. Cumenge. 1862.

Publié en 1862 dans le bulletin de la Société Littéraire et Scientifique de Castres (pages 334 à 342). Il figure, entre autres, dans les collections des Archives départementales du Tarn, à la cote Per 93.

The temple of Rennes (les Bains), whose traces I have recognised, the paving stones, walls and various votive altars are still lying under a layer of top-soil a meter and a half thick.

The paving of the temple is made of large slabs 50 centimeters thick, 25 cm wide and 35 cm long. It was by digging foundations and clearing the ground that a woman's arm was found, holding in her hand an egg, which she seems to present to assistants.
It was the symbol of the divinity of these places dedicated to fertility, a belief that has perpetuated itself to the present day wherein every year at Rennes, the divinity is asked to fulfill the dearest wish of a woman. It is said that once accomplished, the wish is pretty much granted.

Asclepius was still the God to be implored at Rennes. Certainly, if excavations were made in this area rich in archaeological treasures, one would find the body of this statue.

So this chap Cumenge may not be the brightest spark when it comes to the local history aspect, but I'm interested in what seems to be his eye-witness accounts of what he saw and heard in 1862



Hi Sheila,

This seems a good find - thanks for posting it.

It seems the earliest example of what was found perhaps?
What i mean is he wrote 'the Temple of Rennes - whose traces i recognise ....'. Where was he looking?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2017 6:41 am 
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Monsieur A. Cumenge who is listed as a propriétaire-manufacturier was a founding member of the Sociète Littéraire et Scientifique de Castres (in the Tarn).

He seems to specialise in archeology - Roman and earlier.

"M. CUMENGE lit la note suivante sur une voie romaine découverte entre Mazamet et Labruguière."...In this paper he is excavating, digging trenches, studying the soil layers and identifying the roman road.

"M. CUMENGE lit ses études sur la voie romaine découverte à Mirabel, aux environs de Labruguière."...he is excavating vases and medals along the road which he spends ages transcribing from the latin.

M. CUMENGE rend compte du bulletin des antiquaires de la Morinie , depuis 1852 jusques en 1860.

Mémoire de M. CUMENGE sur le séjour des Romains aux environs de Castres

etc etc ....


"M. CUMENGE lit le mémoire suivant sur son voyage à Rennes-les-Bains (Aude)."

He describes "Des urnes cinéraires d'un mètre de hauteur"

Any way: Page 334 to read about Rennes..... but the rest of the Bulletin is a good read.

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5 ... /f334.item


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2017 2:22 pm 
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transport the iron ore from here to the nearest foundry ( Quillan ?)

Henri Boudet's father was was the manager of the forges of Quillan who had been authorized (1837) by François-Denis-Henry-Albert, Count de La Rochefoucauld-Bayers (1799–1854), a member of a prominent French aristocratic family, the De la Rochefoucault to act as his sole representative to constitute a joint venture, la societé des forges et fonderies d'Axat, a Forge and casting plant, the partnership was also composed of controlling shareholder, Ange-Jean-Michel-Bonaventure (1767–1847), 4th Marquess of Dax d'Axat, once Mayor of Montpellier and his son Barthélémy-Léon-François-Xavîer de Dax.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2017 11:53 am 
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Des urnes cinéraires d'un mètre de hauteur"

Suggests alot of cremation doesnt it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2017 4:30 pm 
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Doesn't it just Sandy.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2017 7:01 pm 
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Queen Bee
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hans peper wrote:
We had a lot of rain the last two days, and the Salz and the Aude have a very high tide.

The water of both rivers are yellow/brown muddy.

Yesterday I was in RlB and I saw, that the waterstream coming out of the source of Bains Doux looked exactly muddy and dark like the Salz water.

This is strange, because I thought that the thermal water of Bains Doux comes from deep under the ground, and has nothing to do with the actual water on the surface.

Somebody has also noticed that situation, or has an explanation ?

regards Hans


According to Monsieur de Fleury, back in the days... The change of the waters of the source Bains Doux happen after rain and especially after thunderous rain.
He correctly judged that there had to be in the environs an area where the storm waters are rapidly absorbed by the ground.
One day the source ran with brick dust & fragments...where were the bricks coming from ?
(This is the captured source that they cemented around to create a bassin in the rocks behind the Bains Doux)
Debris was found in a ravine A ( see the map) at a vertical height 100 meters above the road. A rock brought down by storms had obstructed the ravine and the troubled waters backed-up by the obstruction were absorbed by the fissures in the ground, thereby contaminating the source.
We climbed this ravine which is normally dry, and we found that "dans la partie inférieure" there were hollows & projections where the waters cascaded into pools, the rock being fissured. The land is formed by strong layers of sandstone from the Upper Cretaceous alternating with the layers of Marne. The sandstone is extremely fissured which absorb huge amounts of water. etc etc

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PostPosted: 02 Apr 2017 11:30 pm 
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Now that was a very interesting post.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017 7:01 am 
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Glad you enjoyed that, this evening I'll post up how they originally captured the source of water behind the Bains Doux and how Fleury solved the problem of ground water infiltrating through the sandstone and contaminating the thermal waters.


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PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017 12:02 pm 
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Glad you enjoyed that, this evening I'll post up how they originally captured the source of water behind the Bains Doux and how Fleury solved the problem of ground water infiltrating through the sandstone and contaminating the thermal waters.

Honestly Sheila, sometimes it is uncanny - ever so slightly anyway - how our minds sometimes think alike.
I was reading this article only yesterday.

I found this great programme where you can upload a file to get it converted to a word document and then translate it. Its a very handy thing
to have if ur French is ropey.

Alongside this i have been reading about Roman Knights in southern Gaul.

"Senators and knights originating from the city of Nimes under the Upper Empire", Mefr , 87, 1975, p. 691-791;
-, Domitii Aquenses. A family of Roman knights from the Aix-en-Provence region. Mausoleum and field , Paris, 1975.

I just love it. :)


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