Arcadia Discussion Zone

Forums dedicated to history's mysteries, Rennes-le-Château and beyond…

Read the Arcadia Forum House Rules

It is currently 20 Sep 2017 7:38 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 174 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2017 8:21 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 11245
Location: France
The date is 1781, the ponts et chaussées boys where making the road past Rennes les Bains, they found the body.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: translation....
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2017 8:30 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 11245
Location: France
"In 1781 an order was made by the States of Languedoc to open a new public road which, passing through these Bains, was to extend all the way to Roussillon.
In a cave of rock of about four toises deep we found a complete cadavre laid flat on it's back and covered only with some earth. Barely had we touched it when it become dust, with the exception of a few bones that remained whole. "


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2017 8:46 am 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 12 Aug 2008 2:01 pm
Posts: 1369
Location: Switzerland
RLB? Or other "bains" in the Languedoc towards the Roussillon?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2017 8:54 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 11245
Location: France
Rennes-les-Bains.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: translation....
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2017 9:16 am 
Offline
High King

Joined: 15 May 2008 7:42 pm
Posts: 4314
Location: Northumbria
Sheila wrote:
"In 1781 an order was made by the States of Languedoc to open a new public road which, passing through these Bains, was to extend all the way to Roussillon.
In a cave of rock of about four toises deep we found a complete cadavre laid flat on it's back and covered only with some earth. Barely had we touched it when it become dust, with the exception of a few bones that remained whole. "


Coincidentally....or not!! This was the period when the mining engineer Jean Louis Dubosc was active in the area, later causing aggro for Paul Francois Vincent Fleury.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: translation....
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2017 4:08 pm 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 10 Jan 2010 10:10 pm
Posts: 1547
Location: pennsylvania
Sheila wrote:
Barely had we touched it when it become dust, with the exception of a few bones that remained whole. "


A whole body that turned to dust, except for a few bones. Bones don`t turn to dust. So a whole skeleton should have been present not just a few bones.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: translation....
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2017 4:23 pm 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 14 Dec 2010 1:48 am
Posts: 1803
Crimson_Ghost wrote:
Sheila wrote:
Barely had we touched it when it become dust, with the exception of a few bones that remained whole. "


A whole body that turned to dust, except for a few bones. Bones don`t turn to dust. So a whole skeleton should have been present not just a few bones.


Bones turn into fossil - or they in fact do decay, become dust in a way.
Depends on the environment. Exposure to water, air, acid? Can be a fast process or last for thousands of years.

_________________
Roma Victor!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2017 9:41 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 11245
Location: France
For those of you interested in the "heads" of les Bains de Rennes, i've got two older ones for you.

We have lost a whole head carved in stone, which was found in 1804 and a second that was found afterwards; but the latter is less well preserved.

(written in 1810)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2017 2:08 pm 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 10 Jan 2010 10:10 pm
Posts: 1547
Location: pennsylvania
Sheila wrote:
For those of you interested in the "heads" of les Bains de Rennes, i've got two older ones for you.

We have lost a whole head carved in stone, which was found in 1804 and a second that was found afterwards; but the latter is less well preserved.

(written in 1810)


Good Afternoon Sheila, Have you a something translatable for us non bilinguals.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2017 2:28 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 15 May 2008 7:42 pm
Posts: 4314
Location: Northumbria
Sheila wrote:
For those of you interested in the "heads" of les Bains de Rennes, i've got two older ones for you.

We have lost a whole head carved in stone, which was found in 1804 and a second that was found afterwards; but the latter is less well preserved.

(written in 1810)


Why can't you just post the link/reference or anything where anyone interested can look up for themselves?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2017 3:47 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
Posts: 4635
Hi Tina xx
I've read this before - I'm sure it's reported in an old society journal article, something like SESA - I'll try and get reference. It is frustrating when researchers just drop things like that - it's meaningless out of context and just a one sentence ... wouldn't be so bad if an article was written or something like that. ok. Otherwise not sure what is trying to be achieved ....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2017 4:30 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 15 May 2008 7:42 pm
Posts: 4314
Location: Northumbria
If it's there in front of me I will read it but if I have to spend countless hours/ precious time that I don't have to search for something that might or might not interest me I can't be bothered.

Thanks Sandy, that would be good :P


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2017 10:55 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 11245
Location: France
Sheila wrote:

The cippe from the thermes at Alet-les-Bains reads,

MATRI DEUM
CN POMP. PROBUS
CURATOR TEM
PLI. V.S.L.M

And the cippe allegedly found at Rennes-les-Bains reads,

C.POMPEIUS QUARTUS. P .A.M.SVO


La contexture presque identique de ces deux inscriptions nous amène à croire qu’elles sont l’œuvre d’un même personnage, et que Cneius Pompeius était simultanément fermier des thermes de Rennes et des thermes d’Alet.

The almost identical contexture of these two inscriptions leads us to believe that they are the work of the same person, and that Cneius Pompeius was simultaneously the curator of the temple/therms at Alet as well as the temple/therms at Rennes-les-Bains.



Hmm... except that the cippe/votive altar from the thermes at Alet-les-Bains doesn't originate from there, both of these stones come from Rennes les Bains. According to some this stone was offered by the curé of Rennes to the Evêque of Alet .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2017 1:28 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 11245
Location: France
The name Pompeius is found frequently, especially in the Narbonnaise, due to the popularity of Pompée and the fact that he adopted a lot of local people into the gens Pompeia.

Comme en Espagne, Pompée dut alors, soit dans la region des Convenae qu'il avait organisée, soit dans toute la Narbonnaise, accorder à beacoup d'indigènes le droit latin ou le droit de cité, en les faisant entrer dans sa clientèle, en les adoptant dans la gens Pompeia.


As in Spain, Pompey, either in the region of the Convènes which he had organised, or in the whole of the Narbonnaise, had granted to many people native to the land, the droit de cité, the right to be citizens of the Roman Empire, and adopting them into the gens Pompeia.



Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2017 1:46 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 11245
Location: France
In fact the Romanised citizens of the region where allowed to use both names Cneius and Pompeius.

Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017 7:40 am 
Offline
Emperor
User avatar

Joined: 22 Jun 2009 10:28 pm
Posts: 5412
Location: NA
Pilrig wrote:
It is interesting to see how the different versions of Circuit vary. In the Paris version the quote about the Visigoth precious stones and the gold and manuscripts of the arabs is on page 107. It is spoken by the wealthy yacht owning Viscount Jean d’Andresey character. He describes the treasure of Rennes being in two areas namely the cellars of the Queen which housed the treasure of Delphi in the form of ore and smelted gold. According to the Viscount Saunière cleared out this treasure and deposited it in the Citadel of the King which is in the sign of Pisces. This ties in with the Priory of Sion story that there are thirteen treasures hidden around Rennes-les-Bains in caches laid out in the form of a zodiac.
The character Critias on page 81 of Circuit (she is dead by page 85) gives much more detail about Pompey. However she says he was defeated at Naulocha by Agrippa and assassinated at Miletus. This was not Cneius Pompeius Magnus known as Pompey the Great who was assassinated in Egypt but his youngest son Cneius Pompeius Sextus . Critias goes on to say that his body was embalmed by Milesian philosophers and became an object of veneration until the Arabs got hold of the relic and deposited it in an impregnable lead and marble sepulchre near the Rokko Negro. (Some 700 years after his death!!!!!) She mentions a funeral plaque now in a museum at Perpignan inscribed C POMPEIUS QUARTUS DM SVO efforts have been made by forum users to trace this funeral plaque.


I have read and have been re-reading about this, and if i had to make a bet it would be Cneius Pompeius Sextus.

_________________
************


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017 5:41 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
Posts: 4635
For those of you interested in the "heads" of les Bains de Rennes, i've got two older ones for you.
We have lost a whole head carved in stone, which was found in 1804 and a second that was found afterwards; but the latter is less well preserved.
(written in 1810)
"In 1781 an order was made by the States of Languedoc to open a new public road which, passing through these Bains, was to extend all the way to Roussillon.
In a cave of rock of about four toises deep we found a complete cadavre laid flat on it's back and covered only with some earth. Barely had we touched it when it become dust, with the exception of a few bones that remained whole.
"

Why can't you just post the link/reference or anything where anyone interested can look up for themselves?

Hi Tina,

I knew i'd read it before - here is the reference.

Magasin encyclopédique, ou Journal des sciences, des lettres et des arts
https://books.google.fr/books?id=hPZfAAAAcAAJ -
1811
MÉMoIRE relatifaux Bains de Montferrand, vulgairement appelés les Bains de Rennes, à six lieues sud de Carcassonne, et quinze sud-ouest de Narbonne.

Relevant chapter starts on page 46.

I also took the liberty of taking pictures to put up here for anyone else who would like to read about it. I am writing a long piece about the Romans at RLB, and there is quite alot in the old texts regarding this. In fact, there is so much one gets confused about where one reads what, so although it wasnt in SESA it was still in one of the old Journal type's just like SESA. Anyway it is a bit long winded looking through it all but as you know it is really fascinating to collate the information. There is no reason to be withholding the info. or playing games .... it is out there for all to see, one just has to look for it.... as for the heads etc, as i said, out of context makes no sense, but you can see there is no real link with the head of Boudet, for example, but if there is an old burial/necropolis where 'heads' are featured on the stones, or are like the menhirs with heads on i have mentioned before one should not be surprised to find more than one in various places :mrgreen:

Image

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017 6:14 pm 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 10 Jan 2010 10:10 pm
Posts: 1547
Location: pennsylvania
Quote:
The name Pompeius is found frequently, especially in the Narbonnaise, due to the popularity of Pompée and the fact that he adopted a lot of local people into the gens Pompeia.

Comme en Espagne, Pompée dut alors, soit dans la region des Convenae qu'il avait organisée, soit dans toute la Narbonnaise, accorder à beacoup d'indigènes le droit latin ou le droit de cité, en les faisant entrer dans sa clientèle, en les adoptant dans la gens Pompeia.


As in Spain, Pompey, either in the region of the Convènes which he had organised, or in the whole of the Narbonnaise, had granted to many people native to the land, the droit de cité, the right to be citizens of the Roman Empire, and adopting them into the gens Pompeia.



This is from Dec 31 2015 its from me.
Quote:
A few years back I emailed the photo and details to Adrian Goldsworthy this was his initial reply
Quote:
Once again, apologies for the slow response. It is unlikely to be a member of the famous Pompeius family - i.e. Pompey the Great. More likely it is someone whose family gained Roman citizenship from Pompey's patronage - perhaps for military service as an officer of auxiliaries, perhaps through involvement with army supply, although another possibility would be a freedman of the family, who would also take the name. Quite possibly would date back to the campaigns in Spain against Sertorius, although Gallic auxiliaries were common in a lot of campaigns in the first century BC. We should also remember that Massilia sided against Caesar in the Civil War due to prior links with Pompey and others. So Quartus is most likely part of the name and might not mean anything. It could be a Latinized form of an existing name before citizenship. Hard to tell without more information.


I did the same to Garret Fagen, a professor of ancient history at Penn State University he said
Quote:
Probably a votive offering, either to Mars or departed spirits.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017 6:26 pm 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 10 Jan 2010 10:10 pm
Posts: 1547
Location: pennsylvania
This question has been asked numerous times. Is there any reason other than the Pompeius stone to think there is one significant burial dedicated to a high ranking Roman in the RlB valley?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017 6:42 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 11245
Location: France
This whole circular part of the valley is an ancient necroplis ... and within it, the original healing sanctuary, temple and thermes later Romanised with the Cardo, the forum, the market, the baths, the arena etc...
People over the ages including the Roman legios, came here to recuperate, to incubate, to be cured or ... to die.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017 6:50 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
Posts: 4635
Is there any reason other than the Pompeius stone to think there is one significant burial dedicated to a high ranking Roman in the RlB valley?

Hi CG,

The answer is NO.

The idea of an important Roman burial utterly starts with Delmas. Given the context of the story one has to look at all the events ...


October 9th 1644 Antoine Delmas born
23/11/1644 - the famous testament of Francois Pierre d'Hautpoul is registered by the notary of Esperaza, Captier. This is said to be one of the parchments found by Sauniere many years later!
1646 - Blaise Hautpoul, son of Francois, has the church at Rennes-le-Chateau restored and in this endeavour was helped by Nicolas Pavillon. Why does he need Pavillon for this?
November 1661 - Blaise Hautpoul goes to court against Nicolas Pavillon, bishop of Alet, to prevent the Kings troops (Louis XIVth) searching and trampling over his lands and mines. Blaise's lands and possessions include Rennes, St Just, Le Bezu, les Bains (Rennes-les-Bains), Montferrand, Montazels and La Val Dieu. The long and complex trial will end in Grenoble in April 1666 to the advantage of Nicolas Pavillon, but after King breaks the judgments in favour of the bishop. This historical fact deserves to be noted as Louis XIVth and Nicolas Pavillon were particularly opposed. Why then give a judgment in favour of his opponent?
December 1669 Antoine Delmas made a priest by Nicolas Pavillon
November 1672 Antone Delmas made priest of Rennes-les-Bains
1678 - Louis XIVth's treasurer, Colbert, creates a mining company to prospect on the land of the Hautpouls.
1685 - Louis XIVth buys Poussin's 'Shepherds of Arcadia' from CA Herault.
1686 - Henry Hautpoul has the 'Reddis Cellis' stone engraved!
1709 - Antoine Delmas publishes his manuscript on Rennes-les-Bains and the Great Roman. He suggests an important burial -possibly of from Roman times - based on a cippe found.
1732 - François D'HAUTPOUL, Marquis de Blanchefort married 5 novembre 1732 Marie DE NEGRE D'ABLES, Dame de Blanchefort [1714-1781]
1752 - The fief of Montferrand, & the community of Bains and the castle of Blanchefort, belonged to François d'Hautpoul, Marquis de Blanchefort.
The thermal springs of the community of Bains passed into the possession of Joseph d'Hautpoul, who married Marie de Hautpoul-Blanchefort, on September 26, 1752,
From the marriage of Joseph-Marie d'Hautpoul, was born Anne-Gabrielle-Elisabeth of Hautpoul-Blanchefort, lord of Blanchefort, Rennes-les-Bains, Rennes- Castle, Montferran ....
She married by Paul-François-Vincent de Fleury, and had two sons. One of them, Paul Urbain de Fleury, who was born in 1778, bought properties sold as national property.
Paul-Urbain de Fleury married Dame Henriette de Girons and died on August 7, 1836 in Rennes-les-Bains, at the age of 58 years. His son Henry-Paul-Elie de Fleury, born in 1820, died on September 10, 1875 in Rennes-les-Bains, to the survival of his four children: Gabrielle, Louise, Jeanne and Genevieve; his widow Jeanne de Castillon de Saint-Victor.
His property and the thermal establishments in particular were sold on 11 July 1884 and awarded to his eldest daughters, Gabrielle and Louise de Fleury. This family of Fleury later are caught up in intrigue regarding mines on their land. Fleury was also the recipient originally of all the Roman artefacts etc found on his lands that Delmas reports.
1781 - death of Marie de Nègre d’Ables. She recurs frequently in the story of Rennes-le-Château and is closely bound up with the treasure legend. Indeed, the epitaph on her headstone – today lost – is one of the key elements in the legend, which presents it as a coded inscription pointing to the origins of Saunière’s fortune…
1789 - Allegedly the Reddis Cellis stone is transported [from Les Pontils] to the cemetery at Rennes-le-Château. From 1789 to 1895, this stone was found on the grave of the Marquise of Blanchefort, in the cemetery of Rennes-le-Château, near the bell tower.
1832 - Auguste de Labouïsse-Rochefort publishes his book Voyage à Rennes-les-Bains, but possibly first written in 1803 - and mentions ‘The Legend of the Devil’s Treasure’ (cited above). Labouïsse-Rochefort himself was admitted to the Arcadian Academy in 1832, commenting on the event: "A Shepherd of Arcady by the gentle inclination of my heart, I could not help but want to be a member of this illustrious Arcadian Academy". He even referred to the land around Rennes-les-Bains as like Arcadia. Auguste de Labouïsse-Rochefort added [in regards to the legend of the Devils Treasure] - "The annoying thing about this affair was that M. de Fleury, then Lord of the villages of Montferrand, Bains, Rennes, as well as the ruins of Blanchefort, wanted to bring an action against them for having attempted to violate his lands…" which echos suspiciously the trial of Blaise Hautpoul and Nicolas Pavillon some 200 years earlier!

Maybe the shenanigans between Pavillon & Blaise Hautpoul are the root of the 'memories' in the 1709 manuscript? Pavillon may have talked with Delmas?
Who knows?

Also in September 1661, Jean Loret, who ran a magazine called ‘La Muze Historique’, wrote of a treasure found in the diocese of Alet (les-Bains), roughly in the same area (you can see the relevant pages of this magazine here: http://www.rhedesium.com/documents-of-interest.html). Loret worked for the Fouquets and the Duchess of Longueville who maintained an extensive mail relation with Pavillon. In 1666, Colbert, who had succeeded Nicolas Fouquet as French minister of Finance, founded the ‘Compagnie Royale des Mines et Fonderies du Languedoc’ with the intention to start mining on Blaise d’Hautpoul’s land. In return Blaise was granted a status ‘de ne dépendre que du roi’: he was now only answerable to the King alone’
(http://www.rlcresearch.com/enigma-of-rennes-le-chateau/).

Stéphanie Buttegeg mentions a mine near Blanchefort in her book. She says "... pourtant sur le montagne de blanchefort non loin du roc negre sous le bloc erratique du veilleur se trouve bien l'entre d'une autre mine tres ancienne. c'est la plus importante a notre connaissance sur cette montagne et elle apparait aussi de facon recurrente dans les archives du dossier felury-dubosc. cependant il ne s'agit pas d'une mine d'or, mais de cuivre - comme le prouvent les nombreuses pierres bleues et vertes jonchant le sol des galleries et la couleur bleue de ses parois. les textes ancien la nomment le minier d'ivry".

"...Yet on the Blanchefort mountain near Roc Negro - under the boulder of the watchman [Veilleur] is to be found another very old mine. This is the most important [one] to our knowledge on this mountain and it also appears to be so [for others] as it appears recurrently in the archives of the fleury-dubosc folder. However, it is not a gold mine, but copper - as evidenced by the many blue and green stones littering the floor of galleries and the blue colour of its walls. The ancient texts call it the mine of Ivry".

In the recent work of Stéphanie Buttegeg [Les Mines Légendaires Antiques de Rennes-les-Bains (A la Recherche du Secret Perdu, Légendes d’Oc, avril 2013)] the author suggests that there is much more to the assertions made by Plantard regarding a place buried under a mountain. This is not just an invention of Plantard but concerns real life events carried out by Jean Louis Dubosc! Buttegeg wrote 'All indications are that a dark secret lies in the bowels of Rennes-les-Bains". Although a Temple Rond, Buttegeg notes, is not mentioned in the archives by name, there was some strange machinations in the mines under Roc Negre that she believes conceals more than just seems of copper. It would seem that Plantard had accessed these archives and developed a theme of Dubosc accessing a mysterious place under Roc Negre and combined this with knowledge he already had. Plantard even uses the measurements from the Dubosc archives to illustrate how far down it is in Roc Negre to get to that mine of importance!

If, like me, you start with the assumption that this idea of an important burial, or SOMETHING important buried in the area, then it is best to look at all legends and invesitgations keeping this idea in the back of your mind. Therefore if Delmas is the originator in our modern times regarding an important burial of someone in the area [not necessarily Roman but assumed to be so because he talks about others who have suggested the interpretation of the cippe is of a Roman] from lots of archaeology found, may these legends of something buried deep in the bowels of RLB hark back to the original fight between Pavillon and Hautpoul - because just as we are, someone was looking for it on the lands of Hautpoul, and as Buttegeg was able to show - this land has something mysterious buried in a particular ancient mine .... which explains the extraordinary lengths the Haupoul Fleury's went to to stop others accessing it ....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017 7:36 pm 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 10 Jan 2010 10:10 pm
Posts: 1547
Location: pennsylvania
Sheila wrote:
This whole circular part of the valley is an ancient necroplis ... and within it, the original healing sanctuary, temple and thermes later Romanised with the Cardo, the forum, the market, the baths, the arena etc...
People over the ages including the Roman legios, came here to recuperate, to incubate, to be cured or ... to die.


I figured you would say that, but as I said, do we have a legit reason to believe ONE high ranking Roman was buried here, other than that Pompeius Stone?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017 7:48 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 11245
Location: France
Rennes les Bains and Hierapolis in classical Phrygia tick all the same boxes.

The Phrygians built a temple, probably in the first half of the 3rd century BC. This temple, originally used by the citizens of the nearby town of Laodicea, would later form the centre of Hierapolis.
The hot springs have been used as a spa since the 2nd century BC, with many patrons retiring or dying there.

Hierapolis became a healing centre where doctors used the thermal springs as a treatment for their patients.

Thousands of people came to benefit from the medicinal properties of the hot springs. New building projects were started: two Roman baths, a gymnasium, several temples, a main street with a colonnade, and a fountain at the hot spring.

Especially in The Roman Empire period, Hierapolis and its site were a health center. In those years, thousands of people used to come to the baths, of which there are more than 15, and they found their remedy in those baths.

The temple of Apollo was deliberately built over an active fault. This fault was called the Plutonium which we went into in detail over on another thread. It was the oldest religious centre of the native community.

Beyond the city walls and meadow, following the main colonnaded road and passing the outer baths (thermae extra muros), an extensive necropolis extends for over 2 kilometres on both sides of the old road.
The large necropolis is filled with sarcophagi, most famously that of Marcus Aurelius Ammianos.

People who came for medical treatment to Hierapolis in ancient times and the native people of the city buried their dead in tombs of several types according to their traditions and socio-economic status.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierapolis

This to my mind is what we have at Rennes les Bains.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017 10:39 pm 
Offline
Emperor
User avatar

Joined: 22 Jun 2009 10:28 pm
Posts: 5412
Location: NA
Crimson_Ghost wrote:
Quote:
The name Pompeius is found frequently, especially in the Narbonnaise, due to the popularity of Pompée and the fact that he adopted a lot of local people into the gens Pompeia.

Comme en Espagne, Pompée dut alors, soit dans la region des Convenae qu'il avait organisée, soit dans toute la Narbonnaise, accorder à beacoup d'indigènes le droit latin ou le droit de cité, en les faisant entrer dans sa clientèle, en les adoptant dans la gens Pompeia.


As in Spain, Pompey, either in the region of the Convènes which he had organised, or in the whole of the Narbonnaise, had granted to many people native to the land, the droit de cité, the right to be citizens of the Roman Empire, and adopting them into the gens Pompeia.



This is from Dec 31 2015 its from me.
Quote:
A few years back I emailed the photo and details to Adrian Goldsworthy this was his initial reply
Quote:
Once again, apologies for the slow response. It is unlikely to be a member of the famous Pompeius family - i.e. Pompey the Great. More likely it is someone whose family gained Roman citizenship from Pompey's patronage - perhaps for military service as an officer of auxiliaries, perhaps through involvement with army supply, although another possibility would be a freedman of the family, who would also take the name. Quite possibly would date back to the campaigns in Spain against Sertorius, although Gallic auxiliaries were common in a lot of campaigns in the first century BC. We should also remember that Massilia sided against Caesar in the Civil War due to prior links with Pompey and others. So Quartus is most likely part of the name and might not mean anything. It could be a Latinized form of an existing name before citizenship. Hard to tell without more information.


I did the same to Garret Fagen, a professor of ancient history at Penn State University he said
Quote:
Probably a votive offering, either to Mars or departed spirits.


Quote:
liquid capacity
1 culleus = 20 amphora = 40 urna = 160 congius = 960 sextarius
1 sextarius = 2 hemina = 4 quartus = 8 acetabulum = 12 cyathus
1 sextarius = 33.3799880cuin


Did you happen to mention it was supposed to represent a burial 700 years after by Arabs that identify Roman baths in Narbonne?

_________________
************


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017 11:20 pm 
Offline
Emperor
User avatar

Joined: 22 Jun 2009 10:28 pm
Posts: 5412
Location: NA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune_(mythology)

Quote:
Worship and theology[edit]

Mosaic of Neptune (Regional Archeological Museum Antonio Salinas, Palermo)
The theology of Neptune may only be reconstructed to some degree, as since very early times he was identified with the Greek god Poseidon: his presence in the lectisternium of 399 BC is a testimony to the fact.[16] Such an identification may well be grounded in the strict relationship between the Latin and Greek theologies of the two deities.[17] It has been argued that Indo-European people, having no direct knowledge of the sea as they originated from inland areas, reused the theology of a deity originally either chthonic or wielding power over inland freshwaters as the god of the sea.[18] This feature has been preserved particularly well in the case of Neptune who was definitely a god of springs, lakes and rivers before becoming also a god of the sea, as is testified by the numerous findings of inscriptions mentioning him in the proximity of such locations. Servius the grammarian also explicitly states Neptune is in charge of all the rivers, springs and waters. He also is the lord of horses because he worked with Minerva to make the chariot.[19]

He may find a parallel in Irish god Nechtan, master of the well from which all the rivers of the world flow out and flow back to.

Poseidon on the other hand underwent the process of becoming the main god of the sea at a much earlier time, as is shown in the Iliad.[20]

In the earlier times it was the god Portunes or Fortunus who was thanked for naval victories, but Neptune supplanted him in this role by at least the first century BC when Sextus Pompeius called himself "son of Neptune."[21] For a time he was paired with Salacia, the goddess of the salt water.[22]

Neptune was also considered the legendary progenitor god of a Latin stock, the Faliscans, who called themselves Neptunia proles. In this respect he was the equivalent of Mars, Janus, Saturn and even Jupiter among Latin tribes. Salacia would represent the virile force of Neptune.[23]

_________________
************


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 174 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group