Arcadia Discussion Zone

Forums dedicated to history's mysteries, Rennes-le-Château and beyond…

Read the Arcadia Forum House Rules

It is currently 23 Nov 2017 10:19 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2016 12:22 am 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 22 Dec 2014 1:52 am
Posts: 239
Location: België
Something that has puzzled me was how it was agreed that the mistakes on the Blanchefort tombstone made the phrase mort épée.
This seems subjective no? And PdC's interpretation of the mistakes for his own ends.

Looking at the errors would mort et épée be more accurate?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2016 10:13 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 26 Oct 2006 9:11 pm
Posts: 3205
Location: Livingston, Scotland.
Eight letters can be extracted from the tombstone text because they are isolated, because they do not fit the contest of the word or they are above or below the line of writing. Four of them, TMRO are large and are an anagram of MORT and four of them e,E,E,p are small and an anagram of EPEE there are no other anomalies that would give two extra letters to form “et.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2016 12:56 am 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 22 Dec 2014 1:52 am
Posts: 239
Location: België
Pilrig wrote:
Eight letters can be extracted from the tombstone text because they are isolated, because they do not fit the contest of the word or they are above or below the line of writing. Four of them, TMRO are large and are an anagram of MORT and four of them e,E,E,p are small and an anagram of EPEE there are no other anomalies that would give two extra letters to form “et.”


Pilrig, I went back and looked at the article that originally made me think there was 'et' and it was actually an extra 't' not 'et' - so you are correct on the 'et'.
But - the extra 't' came from Haupoul which should be Hautpoul. And it was PdC who pointed out this mistake, then came up with a 'justification'.

Curious to see what you think here?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2016 7:37 pm 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 22 Dec 2014 1:52 am
Posts: 239
Location: België
A further follow up. PdC also mentions the REQUIES CATIN and asks why no 'S' or 'C' in the puzzle, and then explains this, so you could argue either 'T' and 'S' or 'T' and 'C' belong in the list.

Anyone familiar with 'pataphysics will know that it is a science of imaginary solutions. So PdC interpretation of the both the 'anomalies', the 'keyword', his 'mistakes' and the 'solution' should be seen in this light. Even his encryption techniques and decryption process and play with words come straight out of this realm.

If you look at the tombstone there are certainly mistakes/accommodations: some in spelling, some in typography and some in placement of line breaks or spaces.

You could even joke (from those familiar with French and Latin) that splitting SOIXANTE SEPT across two lines reveals SOIX ANTE SEPT (6 before 7) although the O would be anomalous as it is SIX not SOIX for 6. But still a written rather than vocal pun, and points out that SOIX is an anomaly in itself when looking at spellings of SIX derived numbers e.g. sixème.

Just random thoughts, but easy to see why PdC may have been drawn to this diagram of the gravestone. It provides a lot of material and is in a historic journal concerning material important for Plantard and his games...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2016 7:24 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 26 Oct 2006 9:11 pm
Posts: 3205
Location: Livingston, Scotland.
I was given a copy of Franck Marie’s Rennes-le-Château Étude Critque in which there is a comprehensive analysis of the Marie de Blanchefort’s epitaph.
Including the words PS Praecum It consists of 128 letters exactly the same number as the letters that can be extracted from the long parchment.
Letters have been changed
a) CT for CI in the expression CI GIT
b) MDCOLXXXI for MDCCLXXXI
c) NEGRE for NEGRI
d) DARLES for D’ABLES
e) DHAUPOUL FOR D’HAUTPOUL
This means that the 128 letters of the epitaph (including PS Praecum) are exactly the same as the ones in the BERGERE PAS DE TNTATION message …….. as decoded from the long parchment.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2016 8:51 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 2006 3:44 pm
Posts: 7750
l'Epee is the French name for the Star SPICA

The name at the centre of this:

Image

The Dagobert Parchment with the Dalle de Coume Sourde superimposed.

A DAGOBERT II ROI ET A SION EST CE TRESOR ET IL EST LA MORT

_________________
Image
CROMLECK DE RENNES is here.
It's the SUN


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2016 5:27 am 
Offline
Emperor
User avatar

Joined: 22 Jun 2009 10:28 pm
Posts: 5433
Location: NA
Pilrig wrote:
I was given a copy of Franck Marie’s Rennes-le-Château Étude Critque in which there is a comprehensive analysis of the Marie de Blanchefort’s epitaph.
Including the words PS Praecum It consists of 128 letters exactly the same number as the letters that can be extracted from the long parchment.
Letters have been changed
a) CT for CI in the expression CI GIT
b) MDCOLXXXI for MDCCLXXXI
c) NEGRE for NEGRI
d) DARLES for D’ABLES
e) DHAUPOUL FOR D’HAUTPOUL
This means that the 128 letters of the epitaph (including PS Praecum) are exactly the same as the ones in the BERGERE PAS DE TNTATION message …….. as decoded from the long parchment.


gladium wrote:
A further follow up. PdC also mentions the REQUIES CATIN and asks why no 'S' or 'C' in the puzzle, and then explains this, so you could argue either 'T' and 'S' or 'T' and 'C' belong in the list.

Anyone familiar with 'pataphysics will know that it is a science of imaginary solutions. So PdC interpretation of the both the 'anomalies', the 'keyword', his 'mistakes' and the 'solution' should be seen in this light. Even his encryption techniques and decryption process and play with words come straight out of this realm.

If you look at the tombstone there are certainly mistakes/accommodations: some in spelling, some in typography and some in placement of line breaks or spaces.

You could even joke (from those familiar with French and Latin) that splitting SOIXANTE SEPT across two lines reveals SOIX ANTE SEPT (6 before 7) although the O would be anomalous as it is SIX not SOIX for 6. But still a written rather than vocal pun, and points out that SOIX is an anomaly in itself when looking at spellings of SIX derived numbers e.g. sixème.

Just random thoughts, but easy to see why PdC may have been drawn to this diagram of the gravestone. It provides a lot of material and is in a historic journal concerning material important for Plantard and his games...


Gladium, the following is a link to a French article on the Pumaz file - The author, Georges Cagger, also decodes the 128 letters, for which there are arguments that it can't have been created before the late 19th century, 1861.
http://www.societe-perillos.com/pumaz.html

_________________
************


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2017 10:02 pm 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 22 Dec 2014 1:52 am
Posts: 239
Location: België
rain wrote:
Pilrig wrote:
I was given a copy of Franck Marie’s Rennes-le-Château Étude Critque in which there is a comprehensive analysis of the Marie de Blanchefort’s epitaph.
Including the words PS Praecum It consists of 128 letters exactly the same number as the letters that can be extracted from the long parchment.
Letters have been changed
a) CT for CI in the expression CI GIT
b) MDCOLXXXI for MDCCLXXXI
c) NEGRE for NEGRI
d) DARLES for D’ABLES
e) DHAUPOUL FOR D’HAUTPOUL
This means that the 128 letters of the epitaph (including PS Praecum) are exactly the same as the ones in the BERGERE PAS DE TNTATION message …….. as decoded from the long parchment.


gladium wrote:
A further follow up. PdC also mentions the REQUIES CATIN and asks why no 'S' or 'C' in the puzzle, and then explains this, so you could argue either 'T' and 'S' or 'T' and 'C' belong in the list.

Anyone familiar with 'pataphysics will know that it is a science of imaginary solutions. So PdC interpretation of the both the 'anomalies', the 'keyword', his 'mistakes' and the 'solution' should be seen in this light. Even his encryption techniques and decryption process and play with words come straight out of this realm.

If you look at the tombstone there are certainly mistakes/accommodations: some in spelling, some in typography and some in placement of line breaks or spaces.

You could even joke (from those familiar with French and Latin) that splitting SOIXANTE SEPT across two lines reveals SOIX ANTE SEPT (6 before 7) although the O would be anomalous as it is SIX not SOIX for 6. But still a written rather than vocal pun, and points out that SOIX is an anomaly in itself when looking at spellings of SIX derived numbers e.g. sixème.

Just random thoughts, but easy to see why PdC may have been drawn to this diagram of the gravestone. It provides a lot of material and is in a historic journal concerning material important for Plantard and his games...


Gladium, the following is a link to a French article on the Pumaz file - The author, Georges Cagger, also decodes the 128 letters, for which there are arguments that it can't have been created before the late 19th century, 1861.
http://www.societe-perillos.com/pumaz.html


I meant to follow up and say thanks for the link!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2017 8:15 am 
Offline
Emperor
User avatar

Joined: 22 Jun 2009 10:28 pm
Posts: 5433
Location: NA
gladium wrote:

I meant to follow up and say thanks for the link!


You're welcome but looks like there is more.


The following shows there are two major cryptological events that have to occur, one 1860's and the other probably 1891.
That's why I think this is so confusing.


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4623&start=75

bergeredearcadie:
Quote:
You refer to the tombstone of Coumesourde. I'm sorry to have to disappoint you, but it simply never existed. On the other hand there IS a text dated 1880 or 1890 written by the engineer Ernest Cros based on the Zero Meridian of Paris and the English equivalent in Greenwich (the latter being situated at 9 metres 20.9 seconds west of the Paris Meridian). The triangulation for this study was based at Pontils, between Peyrolles/Serres, at the location of a tomb.

_________________
************


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2017 1:53 am 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 22 Dec 2014 1:52 am
Posts: 239
Location: België
Another thing. If PdC picked the tombstone in the pamphlet because it stood out, then any text generated from it i.e. the Shepherdess's text is a result of a collection of random words strung together. Any meaning is then applied by the reader. In PdC case any meaning applied to the words, are post him generating the Shepherdess text i.e. the meaning found in stone and paper.
So how did he know to add the ps praecum to the tombstone? Why not some other random letters to bring up the total to fitting a chessboard? Or maybe he did, and experimented over and over until he found enough random words generated to construe something that looked "mystic".

I still find this only half-answered.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2017 8:32 am 
Offline
Emperor
User avatar

Joined: 22 Jun 2009 10:28 pm
Posts: 5433
Location: NA
gladium wrote:
Another thing. If PdC picked the tombstone in the pamphlet because it stood out, then any text generated from it i.e. the Shepherdess's text is a result of a collection of random words strung together. Any meaning is then applied by the reader. In PdC case any meaning applied to the words, are post him generating the Shepherdess text i.e. the meaning found in stone and paper.
So how did he know to add the ps praecum to the tombstone? Why not some other random letters to bring up the total to fitting a chessboard? Or maybe he did, and experimented over and over until he found enough random words generated to construe something that looked "mystic".

I still find this only half-answered.


That's probably more then most people. To be fair, he had historical and familial documents and help from some of the most advanced cryptographers, and various other gifted people then it doesn't become so difficult to understand. He also had a purpose and a focus maybe even an agenda but without the negative connatations of most people.
I've never read anything to suggest what he did was negative or wrong in anyway and that stands out in this genre. Most people seem to hold him in high esteem except for maybe his drinking.
I think he did everything for a reason, it's just a matter of finding out what it was.

I would have thought you would ask the question of why is "Mortepee" is so important as to warrant all these gymnastics?

_________________
************


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group