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 Post subject: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2015 12:29 am 
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Grand Master

Joined: 14 Dec 2010 1:48 am
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I know the wall - and the supposed open area behind it - at the bend and the cross has been discussed a lot (and the supposed military visit in the middle of the night).

But the whole hillside of Rennes-les-Bains seem to be made up of walls of different kinds. I assume some of them have supporting purposes, but then again, some of them look so much like there is something behind them. The layout of the place reminds a little of the hillside of Baia (discussed in another area of the forum.)

Do we know what are behind these walls - if anything at all?

These are just a few examples, walls are everywhere:

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2015 5:43 am 
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Queen Bee
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If you look carefully at the old photos taken of this area you will find the houses where built terrace-like, backing onto the natural side of the western cliffs.
What you are seeing at the moment are the reinforced backs of these houses that have been demolished during the last century.


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 Post subject: For example ....
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2015 11:35 am 
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Queen Bee
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Image
Image
Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2015 11:44 am 
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High King

Joined: 04 May 2009 7:03 am
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Great photographs Sheila.

This wall is one that I have a particular interest in.

Image

Yep. I know. We've discussed it before. However, it was only surmised then that houses may have abutted the wall. It is still uncertain if the "Z" shape is the remnant roofline.

That area circled in red is of particular interest. I think it was lovuian who spotted it as a potential hidden entry point to whatever may have existed behind the wall when the houses were located there.


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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2015 11:49 am 
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Queen Bee
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Good to hear from you Wombat...
There is no uncertainty in my mind....that is the back of the roof lines.

Image
ImageImage


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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2015 12:13 pm 
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Queen Bee
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http://infoterre.brgm.fr/rapports/RP-52843-FR.pdf

page 13

the last of these small buildings butting onto the western cliff face was demolished in 1996.


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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2015 2:19 pm 
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Grand Master

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Sheila wrote:
If you look carefully at the old photos taken of this area you will find the houses where built terrace-like, backing onto the natural side of the western cliffs.
What you are seeing at the moment are the reinforced backs of these houses that have been demolished during the last century.


True.
I still think it would at least be a possibility that some parts of these hillside structures are even older, a lot older? Would be natural, wouldn't it? If RLB has been a town for so long. Build, use and re-use.

And great photos, Sheila, very very useful. Thank you!

However, there still seem to be some open spaces on the old photos. But needs to be looked at more in detail.
On the aerial images from the 40:yes until today, you can see the same open spaces.
(this of course does not mean that there were never houses there)

I believe that some of these walls and columns are more interesting than others. And it's not the part Wombat showed.
For example, what do we know about those huge columns? Second picture of my first post?

Old aerial images:

1942:

Image

1953:

Image

1976:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: the "huge columns"
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2015 4:22 pm 
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Queen Bee
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http://infoterre.brgm.fr/rapports/RP-52843-FR.pdf

Dude, i've posted up the above link 3 times now...even if you don't read French kindly look at the photo - bottom of page 13.

The "huge columns" you bring our attention to are specifically labelled contreforts ancrés = anchored buttresses

However.... what this cliff looked like over two thousand years ago, is a different story.


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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2015 4:24 pm 
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Queen Bee
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I'm not dissin' you Mr Storm...i love your enquiring mind ... let's dig deeper.


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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2015 5:21 pm 
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Grand Master

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Sheila wrote:
I'm not dissin' you Mr Storm...i love your enquiring mind ... let's dig deeper.


No worries, you know me by now :lol:
I've post a lot of rubbish, and then, perhaps a few times, I actually manage to post someting that I am proud of. Though these moments are very rare.

That cliffside though, been looking a lot at it. Dont know why yet, but there is something with it. Hopefully some day, I'll be able to understand why it is demanding my attention.
The pictures and the links you posted will help for sure, something to look into during my upcoming free days from work.

One thing though:
The cliffside have been "chopped" off almost all the way from the bend to the town square. To provide room for housing and the north-south street.
Did it it really look like this in Roman times?

If not, if the cliffs extended down in a natural way to the river, was the "cardo" of today really located here at Roman times? Was there enough space for it? I am not so sure of that. Looking at bridges and angles at town square, you could say that there is a chance that the other side, the east side, was important for transportation in ancient days. For the entrance to the town from the north.
That is something to consider at least.

On the other hand, if the cardo was indeed in the same place back then a it is now, the cliffsides should have to have been supported in some way in Roman times too, right? Unless it was a very very small path.

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2015 1:24 pm 
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High King

Joined: 04 May 2009 7:03 am
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Location: Australia
Sheila wrote:
Good to hear from you Wombat...
Image


Thanks, Sheila, I'm still around.

This photo has me puzzled though. Is it looking north or south? And, when and from where was it taken?


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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2015 5:56 pm 
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High King

Joined: 26 Oct 2006 9:11 pm
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Location: Livingston, Scotland.
Wombat wrote:
Sheila wrote:
Good to hear from you Wombat...
Image


Thanks, Sheila, I'm still around.

This photo has me puzzled though. Is it looking north or south? And, when and from where was it taken?

Looking south. Note the absence of Cardou !


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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2015 5:59 pm 
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High King
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I'd say it is looking towards the south. To the left you see the road leading towards Montferrand.


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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2015 6:20 pm 
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Queen Bee
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Looking South (with the bend where the Pierre Delmas is now situated) hidden in the trees in the bottom right hand corner.

Those little buildings bottom right where demolished in 1996...their roof outlines can still be seen on the reinforced cliff- face.
Which is why i posted the view.

The Roman baths are bottom centre underneath the piles that support a monstrosity of a modern swimming pool that has been tacked onto the beautiful old gable end of the Hotel de la Reine.


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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2015 6:25 pm 
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photographer is standing on the old original road that winds itself round the slopes of the Bac de la Barrière.


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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2015 1:31 am 
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Grand Master

Joined: 14 Dec 2010 1:48 am
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Sheila wrote:
Looking South (with the bend where the Pierre Delmas is now situated) hidden in the trees in the bottom right hand corner.

Those little buildings bottom right where demolished in 1996...their roof outlines can still be seen on the reinforced cliff- face.
Which is why i posted the view.

The Roman baths are bottom centre underneath the piles that support a monstrosity of a modern swimming pool that has been tacked onto the beautiful old gable end of the Hotel de la Reine.


And what remains today of the once Roman bath? Anything that can be viewed with your own eyes?

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2015 1:46 am 
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Grand Master

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Another arch.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2015 1:55 am 
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Grand Master

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And - again - concerning the bricks, supporting columns, concrete - why do that cliffside need so much supporting?
Are there hollow and unstable areas behind it, in the rock?

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2015 4:54 am 
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High King

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Sheila, Eginolf, Pilrig,

Thanks. Yep. South. I've now done the mental gymnastic.


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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2015 7:02 am 
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Queen Bee
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Quote:
And what remains today of the once Roman bath? Anything that can be viewed with your own eyes?


the 2nd century Roman Thermes where brought to light in 1993 when the Parc de la Reine (the beautiful gardens on the northern side of the Hotel who's gable end you see in the above photograph)) were excavated for the building of the modern piscine...Roman concrete has been superceeded by today's model.

The ancient complex included inlaid black & white marble mosaic baths with central motif, massage parlours, boutiques, columns, châpiteax and games areas etc etc and yes...they are still there under the pillars of modernisation.

The Celtic and Roman remains are still there...but everything you seek is now way down below the modern foundation levels.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2015 12:17 pm 
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Grand Master

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If remember correctly, under the modern day pool, there is some storage space at ground level. Any possibility for remains to be visible there?

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Last edited by Barbarian Storm on 14 Apr 2015 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2015 12:19 pm 
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Grand Master

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The concrete walking path alongside the Sals, right to the east of the hotel, is a rather modern invention too?

Image

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2015 5:38 pm 
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Queen Bee
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Image

scanned from " Histoire de Rennes-les-Bains " by J.Rivière-C.Boumendil

The thermes were rediscovered in 1992 after the floods carried away all the modern faff on top laying bare the ancient substructures in it's wake.


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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2015 9:42 pm 
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Grand Master

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Fantastic. Never seen these pictures before. Thank you!!

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the walls
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2015 10:29 pm 
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High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
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Look how far below the street level the Roman town is?

That's how far we would have to dig to find the Temple etc at RLB ......


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