Arcadia Discussion Zone

Forums dedicated to history's mysteries, Rennes-le-Château and beyond…

Read the Arcadia Forum House Rules

It is currently 20 Sep 2017 7:33 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 141 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2015 2:00 am 
Offline
Emperor
User avatar

Joined: 22 Jun 2009 10:28 pm
Posts: 5412
Location: NA
Davinho wrote:
Quote:
If anyone is near Cambridge or St Andrews could they help into delving into the Lilley enigma further?


Cambridge is 2 stops on the train from my village. I'm pretty busy weekends at the moment but we have our nephew and his gf staying this week so may be taking a trip into Cambridge with them anyway. What do you need doing? I don't need much of an excuse to go there - wonderful City


It wouldn't do any good to let you know it's a wild goose chase, would it?...

You could ask Raven I believe he has some of the correct information that this based on.

_________________
************


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2015 4:03 am 
Offline
Emperor
User avatar

Joined: 22 Jun 2009 10:28 pm
Posts: 5412
Location: NA
hotspur wrote:
The references have been found:


The providential discovery around one hundred and twenty years ago of ancient British manuscripts at Rennes-le-Chateau in Southern France sent ripples of consternation through upper echelons of European aristocracy. For its radical content had cause for Britain's King Edward VII to proclaim that there now exists a “Two-fold order of knowledge”!
Public disclosure of one original and ‘uncensored’ chronicle, together with its associated documents, potentially, holds the power to destroy the artificial foundations of modern-day Christianity, together with the imitative royal families.


http://www.tonybushby.com/articles


1886 Discovery of five unique documents in the former Albigensian Church of Rennes when undergoing renovations. Sauniere family negotiates with English Church and the Roman Church for an eventual sale – neither party is made aware of the others interest. Britain receives three documents for purchase price of £20,000, while France’s Roman Church receives two for an equivalent £35,000 currency amount.
Later in this same year an extraordinary English Church meeting occurs, involving the Convocation of Canterbury together with a newly created assembly named the House of Laymen, whose formation was an impromptu decision made at instigation of the Archbishop of Canterbury. This was a gathering deemed outside conventions of normal church business, which set a new legal precedent requiring parliamentary and royal consent.


http://www.tonybushby.com/articles/view/8



There is also this:

New Zealand researchers claim that what remains of the Bible's real origins, finds for its source material actual events from within the lands of Great Britain, and not Palestine! Their dramatic conclusions are largely based on writings that were produced from the scriptoriums at Jarrow and Wearmouth, in region of Northumbria – S.E. Scotland. In the late seventh century it was at Jarrow where the Venerable Bede wrote about the life of its abbots Coelfridas and Benet Biscop, and the journeys Benet undertook for compilation of the Codex Amiatina. Which, they say, had for its authority the Oracles of God – a work that emerged around time of Constantine the Great’s purported first Council of Nicaea (C.E.325)? Doubts raised about any meeting occurring at Nicaea, when connections with the Roman Church's false Donation of Constantine are examined!

Their research suggests that the churches literal acceptance of the Bible Land's location is unsupportable by the evidence and holds very little historical substance. It is further understood that both English and Roman Churches colluded with royal families in order to usurp Druidic Britain's Celtic/Culdee inheritance and traditions, who were in times past the guardians of unique ancestral knowledge.

In their treatise, they explain, it was manuscript versions of these Druidic traditions that were later discovered at Rennes-le-Chateau in 1886, and reveal the connections that led to a dramatic revision of the 1611 King James I Bible. The sale of these exceptional writings is what made their discoverer, the Catholic priest Berenger Sauniere, a very rich man!

http://www.tonybushby.com/blog


Napoleon was not that short

Napoleon Bonaparte's actual height was 5 foot 6 inches which, in those days, was a completely average height for men. So where did all the confusion come from? The difference between English and French measurements. The English thought the French pre-Revolution unit known as the "pouce" was equivalent to their inch, but it was actually slightly longer. So everyone thought the dictator was only 5'2".

Image

_________________
************


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2015 11:57 am 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 22 Dec 2014 1:52 am
Posts: 239
Location: België
rain wrote:
Davinho wrote:
Quote:
If anyone is near Cambridge or St Andrews could they help into delving into the Lilley enigma further?


Cambridge is 2 stops on the train from my village. I'm pretty busy weekends at the moment but we have our nephew and his gf staying this week so may be taking a trip into Cambridge with them anyway. What do you need doing? I don't need much of an excuse to go there - wonderful City


It wouldn't do any good to let you know it's a wild goose chase, would it?...

You could ask Raven I believe he has some of the correct information that this based on.


If somebody went to St Andrews and scanned Lilley's personal papers I'm all eyes.

Davinho - one of the other posters had mentioned that a member of Cambridge University had, had some of Lilley's papers prior to them being sent to St Andrews.
I wonder if the this person had diaries etc. and had donated them to Cambridge, which be worth investigating.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2015 12:42 pm 
Offline
High King
User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2010 10:58 am
Posts: 2538
Quote:
Davinho - one of the other posters had mentioned that a member of Cambridge University had, had some of Lilley's papers prior to them being sent to St Andrews.
I wonder if the this person had diaries etc. and had donated them to Cambridge, which be worth investigating
.

why would anyone need to physically go there to find that out? Do you think I'm going to just rock up at the "doors" of Cambridge University and ask someone? :lol: Why not just email them and ask?

Quote:
It wouldn't do any good to let you know it's a wild goose chase, would it?...


Well, if I could have fitted in a pub crawl somehow I wouldn't have minded :mrgreen:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2015 1:13 pm 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 22 Dec 2014 1:52 am
Posts: 239
Location: België
Davinho wrote:
Quote:
Davinho - one of the other posters had mentioned that a member of Cambridge University had, had some of Lilley's papers prior to them being sent to St Andrews.
I wonder if the this person had diaries etc. and had donated them to Cambridge, which be worth investigating
.

why would anyone need to physically go there to find that out? Do you think I'm going to just rock up at the "doors" of Cambridge University and ask someone? :lol: Why not just email them and ask?

Quote:
It wouldn't do any good to let you know it's a wild goose chase, would it?...


Well, if I could have fitted in a pub crawl somehow I wouldn't have minded :mrgreen:


1.) Well first of all the records are unlikely to have been digitized. In all likelihood if the diaries were donated they will be stored in one of the archives there, so you would physically need to visit in order to review them.
Yes you can email to confirm they have the files, but you won't be able to read them online.

2.) No you would need to make an appointment of course, as you do with St Andrew's.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2015 4:41 pm 
Offline
High King
User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2010 10:58 am
Posts: 2538
Quote:
1.) Well first of all the records are unlikely to have been digitized. In all likelihood if the diaries were donated they will be stored in one of the archives there, so you would physically need to visit in order to review them.
Yes you can email to confirm they have the files, but you won't be able to read them online.


you'd best lay the ground work and send them an email then. Let me know if you get a reply and we can take it from there


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2015 12:38 am 
Offline
Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2011 12:02 pm
Posts: 1801
Smith's revised contribution to the Lilley story has whitewashed the lot and not provided any information of substance.

Don't know why he bothered.


http://priory-of-sion.com/pos/lilley.html

_________________
"That historical explanation cannot deal in absolutes and cannot adduce sufficient causes greatly irritates some simple and impatient souls"
E. P. Thompson, The Poverty of Theory


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2015 3:02 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 26 Oct 2006 9:11 pm
Posts: 3196
Location: Livingston, Scotland.
Glad I never went to St Andrews the day, the wind has knocked the golf schedule off course. Hang on, that would have given me time to visit the archives.....well in an ideal world maybe.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2015 9:41 pm 
Offline
Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2011 12:02 pm
Posts: 1801
Let's accept for a moment the amounts claimed by Bushby to have been handed over by the Vatican/English Church for the RLC documents, viz, 35,000 pounds and 20,000 pounds, a total of 55,000 pounds.

The gold price in the 1890s was around 3 pounds/oz.

In the 1890s, 55,000 pounds would have purchased around 18,000 ozs of gold.

Today's gold price is around US$1100/oz. valuing this quantity of gold at around US$20M.

So the money putatively handed over by the Vatican/English Church was a sizeable fortune.

Firstly,this suggests the documents were incredibly important to the Churches.

Secondly, this suggests the Sauniere family became very wealthy.

We sees signs of wealth displayed by BS himself.

Are there any signs that BS's wider family became wealthy overnight?

Does anyone know whether this has been researched?

_________________
"That historical explanation cannot deal in absolutes and cannot adduce sufficient causes greatly irritates some simple and impatient souls"
E. P. Thompson, The Poverty of Theory


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2015 10:20 pm 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 22 Dec 2014 1:52 am
Posts: 239
Location: België
hotspur wrote:
Let's accept for a moment the amounts claimed by Bushby to have been handed over by the Vatican/English Church for the RLC documents, viz, 35,000 pounds and 20,000 pounds, a total of 55,000 pounds.

The gold price in the 1890s was around 3 pounds/oz.

In the 1890s, 55,000 pounds would have purchased around 18,000 ozs of gold.

Today's gold price is around US$1100/oz. valuing this quantity of gold at around US$20M.

So the money putatively handed over by the Vatican/English Church was a sizeable fortune.

Firstly,this suggests the documents were incredibly important to the Churches.

Secondly, this suggests the Sauniere family became very wealthy.

We sees signs of wealth displayed by BS himself.

Are there any signs that BS's wider family became wealthy overnight?

Does anyone know whether this has been researched?


I don't. The only thing that comes to mind is that that lintel on his (now sold) family home had the year of the start of his tenure in RLC engraved in it, however I believe the house is much older.

Mlle. Denarnaud seems to have died in poverty, so if his family were rich, does not appear they helped her out.

Where does Bushby claim to have found these amounts?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2015 7:36 am 
Offline
Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2011 12:02 pm
Posts: 1801
gladium wrote:
Where does Bushby claim to have found these amounts?



Don't know Gladium.

_________________
"That historical explanation cannot deal in absolutes and cannot adduce sufficient causes greatly irritates some simple and impatient souls"
E. P. Thompson, The Poverty of Theory


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2015 7:38 am 
Offline
High King
User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2010 10:58 am
Posts: 2538
Quote:
Secondly, this suggests the Sauniere family became very wealthy.

We sees signs of wealth displayed by BS himself.


however any "wealth" dies with him apparently. It's clear that RlC underwent quite extensive work but what Sauniere was responsible for and how much he spent has become part of the folklore.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2015 7:47 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 26 Oct 2006 9:11 pm
Posts: 3196
Location: Livingston, Scotland.
gladium wrote:
hotspur wrote:
Let's accept for a moment the amounts claimed by Bushby to have been handed over by the Vatican/English Church for the RLC documents, viz, 35,000 pounds and 20,000 pounds, a total of 55,000 pounds.

The gold price in the 1890s was around 3 pounds/oz.

In the 1890s, 55,000 pounds would have purchased around 18,000 ozs of gold.

Today's gold price is around US$1100/oz. valuing this quantity of gold at around US$20M.

So the money putatively handed over by the Vatican/English Church was a sizeable fortune.

Firstly,this suggests the documents were incredibly important to the Churches.

Secondly, this suggests the Sauniere family became very wealthy.

We sees signs of wealth displayed by BS himself.

Are there any signs that BS's wider family became wealthy overnight?

Does anyone know whether this has been researched?


I don't. The only thing that comes to mind is that that lintel on his (now sold) family home had the year of the start of his tenure in RLC engraved in it, however I believe the house is much older.

Mlle. Denarnaud seems to have died in poverty, so if his family were rich, does not appear they helped her out.

Where does Bushby claim to have found these amounts?


If Marie was in poverty in her old age it was due her burning loads of old Francs anticipating a change in the law.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2015 7:46 am 
Offline
High King
User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2010 10:58 am
Posts: 2538
Quote:
If Marie was in poverty in her old age it was due her burning loads of old Francs anticipating a change in the law.


anecdotal


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2015 8:43 am 
Offline
High King
User avatar

Joined: 04 Dec 2008 7:15 pm
Posts: 2412
Location: Vienna, Austria
Pilrig wrote:
If Marie was in poverty in her old age it was due her burning loads of old Francs anticipating a change in the law.

That burning of some kind of papers happened in 1947 ... but she had been poor since long, I guess since 1910.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2015 1:00 pm 
Offline
High King
User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2010 10:58 am
Posts: 2538
and her stories about "walking on gold" that she never "managed" to relay were, to me, just a desperate means to survive which worked as she was looked after until she died by Corbu. He fell for her stories and probably felt a bit silly when it was obvious she was misleading him but he's then unlikely to just turf an old woman out onto the street. When he realised he'd been mislead I think he then took Marie's stories and embelleshed them himself in order to attract people to his hotel and attempt to recover some of what he had invested


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2015 3:11 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2009 3:29 am
Posts: 8922
Location: Texas
Well the rumour is that Noel Corbu's children attended school in Carcassonne with the help of the Vatican (John XXIII) on scholarship

_________________
Everything is Connected and there are no
coincidences


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2015 3:56 pm 
Offline
High King
User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2010 10:58 am
Posts: 2538
Quote:
Well the rumour is that Noel Corbu's children attended school in Carcassonne with the help of the Vatican (John XXIII) on scholarship


:lol:

I would put good money on that being bullshit


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2015 5:49 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2009 3:29 am
Posts: 8922
Location: Texas
Davinho wrote:
Quote:
Well the rumor is that Noel Corbu's children attended school in Carcassonne with the help of the Vatican (John XXIII) on scholarship


:lol:

I would put good money on that being bullshit


Noticed I said rumor 8) did Noel Corbu's children go to school in Carcassone?

_________________
Everything is Connected and there are no
coincidences


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2015 7:16 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 26 Oct 2006 9:11 pm
Posts: 3196
Location: Livingston, Scotland.
Eginolf wrote:
Pilrig wrote:
If Marie was in poverty in her old age it was due her burning loads of old Francs anticipating a change in the law.

That burning of some kind of papers happened in 1947 ... but she had been poor since long, I guess since 1910.


She allegedly burnt banknotes because the currency changed after WW2 a tale which may be true or just an embellishment.

Regarding her financial problems after the death of Sauniere, to quote Jean-Luc Robin in his book 'Rennes-le-Chateau: Sauniere's Secret' : " She was finding it more and more difficult to settle her enormous bills for land tax and with more than two thousand francs a year, Marie was by far the biggest tax payer in the village."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2015 1:42 am 
Offline
Grand Master

Joined: 22 Dec 2014 1:52 am
Posts: 239
Location: België
Pilrig wrote:
Eginolf wrote:
Pilrig wrote:
If Marie was in poverty in her old age it was due her burning loads of old Francs anticipating a change in the law.

That burning of some kind of papers happened in 1947 ... but she had been poor since long, I guess since 1910.


She allegedly burnt banknotes because the currency changed after WW2 a tale which may be true or just an embellishment.

Regarding her financial problems after the death of Sauniere, to quote Jean-Luc Robin in his book 'Rennes-le-Chateau: Sauniere's Secret' : " She was finding it more and more difficult to settle her enormous bills for land tax and with more than two thousand francs a year, Marie was by far the biggest tax payer in the village."


And funds would have dried up from Saunière's various schemes like selling masses.
It's also possible that he did not divulge to her the sources of some of his income, so she was not able to use it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2015 6:31 am 
Offline
High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
Posts: 4635
When Antoine Captier and Claire Corbu’s book L’Héritage de l’Abbé Saunière was published in 1985 reference was made to Marie Dénarnaud destroying documents, not old French currency.

Perhaps much more interesting than burning money!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2015 12:24 pm 
Offline
High King
User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2010 10:58 am
Posts: 2538
Quote:
Regarding her financial problems after the death of Sauniere, to quote Jean-Luc Robin in his book 'Rennes-le-Chateau: Sauniere's Secret' : " She was finding it more and more difficult to settle her enormous bills for land tax and with more than two thousand francs a year, Marie was by far the biggest tax payer in the village."


is there proof that she "was by far the biggest tax payer in the village." ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2015 8:04 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 26 Oct 2006 9:11 pm
Posts: 3196
Location: Livingston, Scotland.
Davinho wrote:
Quote:
Regarding her financial problems after the death of Sauniere, to quote Jean-Luc Robin in his book 'Rennes-le-Chateau: Sauniere's Secret' : " She was finding it more and more difficult to settle her enormous bills for land tax and with more than two thousand francs a year, Marie was by far the biggest tax payer in the village."


is there proof that she "was by far the biggest tax payer in the village." ?


You'd have to get in touch with the French version of the dreaded HMRC to find out. But considering her neighbours were mostly ag-labs, with the sole exception of the occupants of the Chateau Hautpoul, it seems probable she was the largest taxpayer.


Last edited by Pilrig on 23 Jul 2015 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2015 8:07 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 26 Oct 2006 9:11 pm
Posts: 3196
Location: Livingston, Scotland.
gladium wrote:
Pilrig wrote:
Eginolf wrote:
That burning of some kind of papers happened in 1947 ... but she had been poor since long, I guess since 1910.


She allegedly burnt banknotes because the currency changed after WW2 a tale which may be true or just an embellishment.

Regarding her financial problems after the death of Sauniere, to quote Jean-Luc Robin in his book 'Rennes-le-Chateau: Sauniere's Secret' : " She was finding it more and more difficult to settle her enormous bills for land tax and with more than two thousand francs a year, Marie was by far the biggest tax payer in the village."


And funds would have dried up from Saunière's various schemes like selling masses.
It's also possible that he did not divulge to her the sources of some of his income, so she was not able to use it.


He was cleared of the accusation of simony - selling masses.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 141 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group