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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2015 8:09 pm 
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bergeredearcadie wrote:
When Antoine Captier and Claire Corbu’s book L’Héritage de l’Abbé Saunière was published in 1985 reference was made to Marie Dénarnaud destroying documents, not old French currency.

Perhaps much more interesting than burning money!


yeah, and ifinitely more sensible...I mean, what kind of idiot burns lucre ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6q4n5TQnpA


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2015 12:44 am 
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If I want to keep things secret, I always have a Bonfire of the Vanities in my backyard, geez it's just common sense isn't it.

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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2015 8:18 am 
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You'd have to get in touch with the French version of the dreaded HMRC to find out. But considering her neighbours were mostly ag-labs, with the sole exception of the occupants of the Chateau Hautpoul, it seems probable she was the largest taxpayer.


ys but where does that infomation come from? Why is it probable? Because of the stories? Is this not just a circular argument based on belief in somewhat spurious anecdotes? Evidence of such a claim would be handy


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2015 10:02 am 
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This is the sort of stuff that D Burden and the 'team' were presumably trying to establish as factual or not. Makes you wonder if this is an area that they managed to clarify. In fact it would be good to know what 'facts' to do with RLC they did establish in their cataloguing of the facts. I'll bounce a question off humblemason to see if he's willing to post the established facts (and sources) here.

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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2015 10:18 am 
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Quote:
yeah, and ifinitely more sensible...I mean, what kind of idiot burns lucre ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6q4n5TQnpA


haha The KLF had their own very good reasons for burning a million quid. I highly recommend this book :-

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-KLF-Burned-Million-Pounds/dp/1780226551


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2015 12:08 pm 
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Pilrig wrote:

He was cleared of the accusation of simony - selling masses.


Even if he was cleared he was still engaged in it. We have his papers showing such.


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2015 12:09 pm 
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jlockest wrote:
This is the sort of stuff that D Burden and the 'team' were presumably trying to establish as factual or not. Makes you wonder if this is an area that they managed to clarify. In fact it would be good to know what 'facts' to do with RLC they did establish in their cataloguing of the facts. I'll bounce a question off humblemason to see if he's willing to post the established facts (and sources) here.


Thanks jlockest. I would be interested to know this as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2015 9:31 am 
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Davinho wrote:
Quote:
You'd have to get in touch with the French version of the dreaded HMRC to find out. But considering her neighbours were mostly ag-labs, with the sole exception of the occupants of the Chateau Hautpoul, it seems probable she was the largest taxpayer.


ys but where does that infomation come from? Why is it probable? Because of the stories? Is this not just a circular argument based on belief in somewhat spurious anecdotes? Evidence of such a claim would be handy


It is a guess. Probable because, she being Sauniere's sole heir to his estate she'd be the biggest landowner in the village, apart from , perhaps, the owner of the Chateau Hautpoul and the neighbours were farm workers, good peasant stock, not exactly rolling in the dough.


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2015 9:32 am 
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Location: Livingston, Scotland.
Davinho wrote:
Quote:
yeah, and ifinitely more sensible...I mean, what kind of idiot burns lucre ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6q4n5TQnpA


haha The KLF had their own very good reasons for burning a million quid. I highly recommend this book :-

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-KLF-Burned-Million-Pounds/dp/1780226551


They could have sent a few quid in my direction first. One of the names quoted was the actor Ken Campbell, quite a remarkable man.


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2015 11:24 am 
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Quote:
They could have sent a few quid in my direction first


Their point was to make people stop and think about what money is. Originally, they took the million quid, nailed it to a piece of word and called it art. They then put this piece of "art" up for sale with a price of £500,000. Any buyer then had a decision to make. As soon as they bought it the money would start losing value due to inflation but the value of it as a piece of art would rise. So do they take the cash off and immediately get double their money back but ruining the art or do they hold onto it and see it's value rise?...

The point they made in the interview about people not being concerned or angry if they had wasted a million on cars or luxuries is interesting


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2015 3:21 pm 
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Pilrig wrote:
Davinho wrote:
Quote:
You'd have to get in touch with the French version of the dreaded HMRC to find out. But considering her neighbours were mostly ag-labs, with the sole exception of the occupants of the Chateau Hautpoul, it seems probable she was the largest taxpayer.


ys but where does that infomation come from? Why is it probable? Because of the stories? Is this not just a circular argument based on belief in somewhat spurious anecdotes? Evidence of such a claim would be handy


It is a guess. Probable because, she being Sauniere's sole heir to his estate she'd be the biggest landowner in the village, apart from , perhaps, the owner of the Chateau Hautpoul and the neighbours were farm workers, good peasant stock, not exactly rolling in the dough.


I think this is a sensible guess though! I would have to go and research it, but if they levied at the time Marie would have had to pay taxe d'habitation and taxe foncière (I think after 1917).

The French tax system changed a lot after WWI and Marie may not have had the knowledge to keep up with the changes she faced and the lack of income after Saunière's death.


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2015 9:47 pm 
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Davinho wrote:
they took the million quid, nailed it to a piece of word and called it art.

A piece of word is letters or a single letter. If I say it is art, it is art. Art is conscious self-expression. If I say it has value and you agree then you pay me appropriately. You might do this because you appreciate art, or you might do it because you think art is something that 'hangs on the wall and gets more expensive' or similar.

The perception of value is an interesting question and ultimately valueless. In genetic terms we are here to procreate and secure the future for our genes' survival. Anything else is pure vanity on our ego's part. Having said that, all we can really do is celebrate that situation and enjoy life.

Unless you know otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2015 10:17 pm 
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Joined: 26 Oct 2006 9:11 pm
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Location: Livingston, Scotland.
Davinho wrote:
Quote:
They could have sent a few quid in my direction first


Their point was to make people stop and think about what money is. Originally, they took the million quid, nailed it to a piece of word and called it art. They then put this piece of "art" up for sale with a price of £500,000. Any buyer then had a decision to make. As soon as they bought it the money would start losing value due to inflation but the value of it as a piece of art would rise. So do they take the cash off and immediately get double their money back but ruining the art or do they hold onto it and see it's value rise?...

The point they made in the interview about people not being concerned or angry if they had wasted a million on cars or luxuries is interesting


Yes I can see what you mean in the last sentence. I remember several years ago an elderly woman left a fortune in her will to animal charities. There was a reaction by certain opinion columnists in the press: "How could she do such a thing, when there is such poverty in the world ? " There should be a law against such bequests" etc etc yawn. What flew over their cliched minds was that it was the woman's own money to use as she wished...and if she had blown her fortune on gambling, bevvy or 'illicit substances' there would have been no such degree of fury from the scribes.


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2015 10:21 pm 
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Joined: 26 Oct 2006 9:11 pm
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Location: Livingston, Scotland.
Whoop wrote:
Davinho wrote:
they took the million quid, nailed it to a piece of word and called it art.

A piece of word is letters or a single letter. If I say it is art, it is art. Art is conscious self-expression. If I say it has value and you agree then you pay me appropriately. You might do this because you appreciate art, or you might do it because you think art is something that 'hangs on the wall and gets more expensive' or similar.

The perception of value is an interesting question and ultimately valueless. In genetic terms we are here to procreate and secure the future for our genes' survival. Anything else is pure vanity on our ego's part. Having said that, all we can really do is celebrate that situation and enjoy life.

Unless you know otherwise.


Enjoy life...or more to the point appreciate the miracle that is being alive.


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2015 10:22 pm 
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Joined: 26 Oct 2006 9:11 pm
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Location: Livingston, Scotland.
What did Marie burn in the garden ? Probably leaves !


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2015 10:42 am 
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Quote:
A piece of word is letters or a single letter.


piece of wood...typo

Quote:
The perception of value is an interesting question and ultimately valueless. In genetic terms we are here to procreate and secure the future for our genes' survival. Anything else is pure vanity on our ego's part. Having said that, all we can really do is celebrate that situation and enjoy life.


it seems you get their point perfectly :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2015 6:54 pm 
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Davinho wrote:
it seems you get their point perfectly :mrgreen:

Take me to the church of the KLF, aha-aha.


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 30 Jul 2015 10:00 pm 
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Looks like even M. Smith agrees with us on the taxes.

She owed over 31,000 francs. Ouch!


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2015 12:34 am 
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A very interesting thread, did anyone make it to Scotland and review the papers?
I'd like to see Andrew Gough do an article on this in the Heretic magazine, I think it would be fascinating.


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2016 8:39 pm 
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Joined: 22 Dec 2014 1:52 am
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Location: België
Aedis wrote:
A very interesting thread, did anyone make it to Scotland and review the papers?
I'd like to see Andrew Gough do an article on this in the Heretic magazine, I think it would be fascinating.


I am back to this thread today. Did anyone ever follow up on this?


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2016 5:21 pm 
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gladium wrote:
Aedis wrote:
A very interesting thread, did anyone make it to Scotland and review the papers?
I'd like to see Andrew Gough do an article on this in the Heretic magazine, I think it would be fascinating.


I am back to this thread today. Did anyone ever follow up on this?


Hello gladium - well I guess not!


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2016 9:18 pm 
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Location: België
A quick update.

1889 we know a 27 year old Lilley was in Dublin, his address is here:

https://www.myheritage.com/research/col ... showRecord

Apparently this is when he graduated according to the record repeated on many websites (which we know is flawed as it had has attending school the same year he was born, but possible this date is right).

By 1893 he had left Dublin as he was struck off the Royal Society of Antiquaries for non-payment for fees:

https://archive.org/stream/journalofroy ... t_djvu.txt

This was for years 1891 and 1892. So if he paid 1890 then we know at some point in that year he was still in Ireland.


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2017 5:33 pm 
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Joined: 22 Dec 2014 1:52 am
Posts: 239
Location: België
An update:

Evidence is starting to come to light of Lilley's time spent in Paris. We now know he was there in 1909 and stayed at this location:

https://www.leburgundy.com/en/

Hed been receiving letters here from the nobel chemist Paul Sabatier. Most information we have is after 1900. The missing piece is 1891 - 1892 era.

Also assuming he graduated in summer of 1889 and as the record says spent 2 years in Glendermott before moving to London, this puts him arriving around autumn 1891. So before the parchments are found and their "supposed" trip to Paris, which we believe to be end of 1891 begining of 1892.

Lilley had to be in Chelsea when (if) he received the request to go to Paris.


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2017 10:03 pm 
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Whoop wrote:
Davinho wrote:
it seems you get their point perfectly :mrgreen:

Take me to the church of the KLF, aha-aha.

Mu Mu
Regards
Nic


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 Post subject: Re: Alfred Leslie Lilley
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2017 8:52 am 
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23/08/2017.....


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