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 Post subject: Paraenesis ad judices
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017 8:38 pm 
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Queen Bee
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The sudden appearance of Rhedae, this city that sprang from nowhere as mentioned in Théodulf's itinerary in the same breath as Carcassonne and Narbonne needs to be seriously questioned.

The city of Rhedae is based on that one line in the Paraenesis ad judices

My conclusion is that the city of Rhedae is based on a mistranslation.


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PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017 8:56 pm 
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And Razes, Rhedesium?

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PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017 9:07 pm 
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Read my previous post.


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PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017 9:17 pm 
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Still dont get it :cry:

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 Post subject: Och..
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017 9:22 pm 
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I thought I'd summarised that rather well, which bit don't you get.


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 Post subject: Re: Och..
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017 9:51 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
I thought I'd summarised that rather well, which bit don't you get.


Never good to read a long post in a bar.

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PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017 9:57 pm 
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Enjoy your evening, get off the internet.


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PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017 11:06 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
Enjoy your evening, get off the internet.


You can log out anytime you like,
but you can never leave.

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PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017 11:06 pm 
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and thx!

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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017 12:43 pm 
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I don't know which one is worse today, my knowledge of the French language or my hangover.

Your'e right, Sheila, that was a good summary.

And really, not many seem to believe in the old myth of Rhedae these days. That's in the past. Arguments made in your summary provide some of the final nails in the Rhedae coffin...

However, I still find our hill top village interesting.
Fédié must have had his reasons for putting Rhedae here.
Sauniere too, for constructions walls and towers.

Something – enough – was visible for them at the time.

So, what do we really know about the history of Rennes-le-Château?
What was it's old name, if it wasn't what we thought it was?

I my mind, there's no doubt whatsoever that the location indeed once was heavily fortified. There are signs all over the hill for this, with a concentration to the northwest upper corner.

Possibly it began as an oppidum, where the Romans built a small fort with a signal station/temple. That's not a wild guess.

What about the monastery that is said to have been located somewhere on the hill and plateau? One theory I've been playing with – wild speculation that perhaps could be easily proven untrue? – is the question if the fortress we see traces of could in fact have been the monastery itself? In other words – the old fortress and the monastery were the same thing?
Think about it for a while.
In a way, it would make some sense if you compare the design of other hill monasteries of the region with what we see at RLC.
But my knowledge is this time period is rather vague and grey, how would this fit in time with the creation of the new château and so on...? Could the "new" château (the one we see today) have been built after the destruction of an old monastery? For which time period do we "know" there was a monastery here? And so on, my knowledge of this time period is not very good, it's terrible.

The hill was a fortress.
But, what kind of fortress?
What did it protect? And how did it came to be?
How was it destroyed/replaced with Chateau d'Hautpoul?

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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017 1:09 pm 
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It's an interesting question.
If this was once a Celtic oppidum and eventually a Visigothic Clausura (who says!) why has there been no Roman traces found in between these two periods.

And actually, I would love to see these Visigoth traces ...any evidence is thin on the ground and maybe even doubtful.


Last edited by Sheila on 04 Mar 2017 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017 1:17 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
It's an interesting question.
If this was once a Celtic oppidum and eventually a Visigothic Clausura why has there been no Roman traces found in between these two periods.


The overall layout of the NW corner screams Rome. Of course, there other candidates too for this. But it really carries the fingerprints of the Empire.

So, in a way, I think we could see that a possible Roman trace.

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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017 1:18 pm 
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Evidence needed....and not just street layout.


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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017 1:20 pm 
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So...

Possible oppidum --> Possible Roman signal station (or small temple) --> ???? ---> possible fortress/monastery?

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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017 1:22 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
Evidence needed....and not just street layout.


There's evidence spread out, more than street layout. Collapsed walls and the way the roads are setup are two examples.

We have a lot of plattforms, a ton more than your average house foundation stones.

And we have the records of a monastery in the neighborhood?

A fortified monastery...

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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017 2:13 pm 
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Quote:
I don't know which one is worse today, my knowledge of the French language or my hangover.

:lol: :lol:


Quote:
Fédié must have had his reasons for putting Rhedae here.
Sauniere too, for constructions walls and towers.


I think Sauniere was cashing in on the idea of Rhedae, the lost mythical town. He was recreating the myth in a way. Remember the postcards,what was the point of these, other than to distribute them in order to draw in tourists. He clearly had an upscale taste, and needed money to support that.

Selling the masses may have helped support some of his income and building funds, but he needed something more. He needed people, people equal donations. With Fedie bringing the idea of Rhedae back to life(1880), Boudet writing about a Celtic playground down over the hill(1886?), what better opportunity to take advantage and draw people in?

I`m not saying something else wasn`t going on under the surface as well.


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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017 2:18 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
It's an interesting question.
If this was once a Celtic oppidum and eventually a Visigothic Clausura (who says!) why has there been no Roman traces found in between these two periods.

And actually, I would love to see these Visigoth traces ...any evidence is thin on the ground and maybe even doubtful.


The evidence is lacking in many aspects of RlC and RlB.


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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017 5:40 pm 
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Crimson_Ghost wrote:
Sheila wrote:
It's an interesting question.
If this was once a Celtic oppidum and eventually a Visigothic Clausura (who says!) why has there been no Roman traces found in between these two periods.

And actually, I would love to see these Visigoth traces ...any evidence is thin on the ground and maybe even doubtful.


The evidence is lacking in many aspects of RlC and RlB.


Lacking... and not lacking. I think it there's, though we might actually not know what we are looking at.

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PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017 1:57 am 
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Crimson_Ghost wrote:
Quote:
I don't know which one is worse today, my knowledge of the French language or my hangover.

:lol: :lol:


Quote:
Fédié must have had his reasons for putting Rhedae here.
Sauniere too, for constructions walls and towers.


I think Sauniere was cashing in on the idea of Rhedae, the lost mythical town. He was recreating the myth in a way. Remember the postcards,what was the point of these, other than to distribute them in order to draw in tourists. He clearly had an upscale taste, and needed money to support that.

Selling the masses may have helped support some of his income and building funds, but he needed something more. He needed people, people equal donations. With Fedie bringing the idea of Rhedae back to life(1880), Boudet writing about a Celtic playground down over the hill(1886?), what better opportunity to take advantage and draw people in?

I`m not saying something else wasn`t going on under the surface as well.


I don't think Sauniere cashed in on the concept of "Rhedae" as a lost mythical town at all, where is the evidence for that??? :P See, not so easy is it?

The postcards though being 33 and being sold openly to specific tourists though show there was something. 33 steps is ancient concept it doesn't take a genius to surmise it's relevance but you would have to prove through direct evidence it's relevance to Celtic belief and how it would have been used in RLC/RLB directly for it to gain any traction.

I think this is what has been the most difficult, untangling and sorting out what belongs to what and what is correct and it's meaning.

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PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017 2:48 am 
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Sheila wrote:
The sudden appearance of Rhedae, this city that sprang from nowhere as mentioned in Théodulf's itinerary in the same breath as Carcassonne and Narbonne needs to be seriously questioned.

The city of Rhedae is based on that one line in the Paraenesis ad judices

My conclusion is that the city of Rhedae is based on a mistranslation.


I believe we're deliberately being encouraged to read it incorrectly. It's being defined incorrectly as a "city" when it's not.

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 Post subject: 360°
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017 12:35 pm 
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http://www.portail-rennes-le-chateau.co ... uelle.html

Here you go, click on fullscreen and have a Sunday afternoon stroll.

The defensive walls round the back of the château are worth a close look.


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PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017 1:53 pm 
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Quote:
I don't think Sauniere cashed in on the concept of "Rhedae" as a lost mythical town at all, where is the evidence for that??? :P See, not so easy is it?

Maybe I should have said I believe it was his intentions to use the postcards to attract tourists. Just like every everyone else who sells them. Unlike selling stolen paintings or looted jewels, postcards probably aren`t going to make you rich, but they could help a little. We do know Sauniere was always in debt to his contractors. Clearly he wasn`t sleeping with a pillow case full of cash. What money he made, he spent. Therefore the only evidence I can offer is his constructions and possessions he had.


Quote:
The postcards though being 33 and being sold openly to specific tourists though show there was something. 33 steps is ancient concept it doesn't take a genius to surmise it's relevance but you would have to prove through direct evidence it's relevance to Celtic belief and how it would have been used in RLC/RLB directly for it to gain any traction.


I`m curious why there always has to be an underlying meaning to everthing. Everything is a conspiracy to you/others. You sound like Roscoe and Lovuian.

Quote:
I think this is what has been the most difficult, untangling and sorting out what belongs to what and what is correct and it's meaning.


Of course there must be a hidden meaning why he made 33 postcards. I understand why this seems so enticing, but what if he had 35 photos taken and he only liked 33 of them. Is it really so hard to take something for face value.

What if he made 32 postcards...what does that mean...


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PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017 1:59 pm 
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rain wrote:

I believe we're deliberately being encouraged to read it incorrectly. It's being defined incorrectly as a "city" when it's not.


Of course more conspiracy. This one even predates the Masons and Templars.. wait...is conspiracy possible without Masons or Templars involved, they seem to get all the blame?


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PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017 3:53 pm 
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Love the link, Sheila!
Thanks.

Walked that street many times but I never noticed these stones:

Image

Image

Anyone see it? Could it be....

Image

What is left of an old doorway into...?
Or just my imagination?

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PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017 4:01 pm 
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A very fertile imagination.


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