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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2015 2:28 pm 
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Moving some pictures to this thread.

Remember on these pictures - the two city streets leading up to the rounded part of church.
Both lines would cross at that point, if you extend them past housing and structures.

Image

1962:
Image

Image

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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2015 2:48 pm 
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Now let's lets a look at the church, garden and Calvaire.

I know most of you already have knowledge about the mirrored image - that the garden layout mirrors the church.
Some people have seen codes in this, thinking it's part of a clue, left to us by Sauniere. I read somewhere someone suggested it's all sacred geometry.
And there's that quote about heaven and earth.

http://www.renneslechateau.nl/2007/12/1 ... he-domain/
Image

http://www.renneslechateau.nl
Image

http://www.philipcoppens.com/
Image


So the garden layout does indeed seem to be a mirror of the church.
But maybe there is another solution. A more simple - and less mystic - solution than previous suggestions?

Hans already said it.
Why does the two village streets lead to this point?
Well, perhaps since this was the gate house to the fortress.

Now how does this add up to church and the garden?

Let's have a look at some random gate houses:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Gate houses come in all sizes and all forms. A very common shape is the kind you see above.

You get the point. There is a possibility here that the mirror shape is actually a gatehouse where some of it's ground structures and foundation stones survived over the centuries.
Image


I appologize if this has already been suggested elsewhere.

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Last edited by Barbarian Storm on 30 Jan 2015 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2015 2:52 pm 
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If you do want to dig on your own plot - but not want anyone to take notice - you could mask it by starting building projects.
No better excuse than that for digging, removing stones, searching.

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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2015 3:09 pm 
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Where did all the stone go?
I am sure a lot of it was used again when the present day chateau was built.

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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2015 5:14 pm 
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I love the diagrams and pictures Barbarian Storm very cool

Good job :idea:

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015 6:00 am 
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Hi BS,

whow, you are brilliant. I thought a lot about the history of the building, but this idea is great. Don't you want to join in the "German Castles association" ?

"Where are the stones ?" They are used to build the church and the Chateau Hautpoul. But much later as they told us.

So we have a church made of anchient stones and the experts dated the church to anchient centuries.

My thoughts are, that the church was build together with the chateau Hautpoul : 17 th century.

regards Hans

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015 1:08 pm 
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hans peper wrote:
Hi BS,

whow, you are brilliant. I thought a lot about the history of the building, but this idea is great. Don't you want to join in the "German Castles association" ?

"Where are the stones ?" They are used to build the church and the Chateau Hautpoul. But much later as they told us.

So we have a church made of anchient stones and the experts dated the church to anchient centuries.

My thoughts are, that the church was build together with the chateau Hautpoul : 17 th century.

regards Hans



Thank you, Hans.
At least this is a suggestion that fits pretty well:

Pros:
## Explains why the two streets (if continued in a more or less straight line) end up in this spot.
## Give purpose to the mirror shape of church/garden.
## Could explain why previous excavation of church underground was fruitless. (And also hints that future excavations will be too. Only thing a new excavation then would prove is that there is no crypt here. Instead, the GPR reads done here could hint a small(?) cellar of some sort.)
## If there was a fortress here, it would have had a gate house of some sort. Which kind and how large, one could argue.
## One does get a feeling now why Sauniere had his towers and wall built in the way he did. Was he aware of underlying structures in garden as well? I think so. What other traces of structure did the priest remove during the rebuilding of the domaine?

Cons:
## Space to north where the cemetery is seems a little small. Placement of a gate house possibly to close to slope?

Can you think of other pros and cons?

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015 1:18 pm 
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hans peper wrote:
So we have a church made of anchient stones and the experts dated the church to anchient centuries.

My thoughts are, that the church was build together with the chateau Hautpoul : 17 th century.


I am thinking similar things.
Church was possibly built on top of the ruins of a gate house.
But when?
How long after the burning and sacking of the original castle?

Now we need to find evidence for further walls, towers and possibly other main buildings of the first chateau.
And where was the other church of the village located? (I know which place has been suggested). Is that the place of the ancient crypt?
Which place in a village, judging from the location of the fortress, would seem most likely for a church?


I am sure there will be a few more surprises here.

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Last edited by Barbarian Storm on 31 Jan 2015 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015 1:26 pm 
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hans peper wrote:
Don't you want to join in the "German Castles association" ?


Thanks for the invition, but I fear I do lack the proper education.
And with the German I learnt in school I can manage to order gas and food in Germany, but I'd be lost in discussions about any Schloss :lol:

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015 1:52 pm 
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Another little mystery to consider.
If not for Saunieres domaine and the chateau, this part of RLC would hardly have any structures at all:

Image

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015 1:59 pm 
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Barbarian Storm wrote:
Could explain why previous excavation of church underground was fruitless. (And also hints that future excavations will be too. Only thing a new excavation then would prove is that there is no crypt here. Instead, the GPR reads done here could hint a small(?) cellar of some sort.)

http://www.renneslechateau.nl/2008/01/05/crypt/


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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015 2:12 pm 
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Crimson_Ghost wrote:
Barbarian Storm wrote:
Could explain why previous excavation of church underground was fruitless. (And also hints that future excavations will be too. Only thing a new excavation then would prove is that there is no crypt here. Instead, the GPR reads done here could hint a small(?) cellar of some sort.)

http://www.renneslechateau.nl/2008/01/05/crypt/


In that link you find the old suggestions and theories on the MM church, right? Not any hard facts proving that the church was not built on top of an old gate house?

A large cavity that shows on GPR reading could display an old cellar.

Or both theories could prove right - if indeed an old gate house - there could have been a chapel in one of the "tower" structures making up the gate house (and therefore tombs under it).

I am not really sure here - does it say in any source that the "Tomb of the Seigneurs" is specifically under the MM church?

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015 5:25 pm 
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Might be a thought stretched too far, but it would be interesting know if Sauniere has "hightlighted" any other features on the domaine, features that could - perhaps - be linked to an older castle and a lost time (and to the mythic Rhedae that Sauniere rightly or wrongly thought to be here).

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015 5:53 pm 
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Barbarian Storm wrote:
Crimson_Ghost wrote:
Barbarian Storm wrote:
Could explain why previous excavation of church underground was fruitless. (And also hints that future excavations will be too. Only thing a new excavation then would prove is that there is no crypt here. Instead, the GPR reads done here could hint a small(?) cellar of some sort.)

http://www.renneslechateau.nl/2008/01/05/crypt/


In that link you find the old suggestions and theories on the MM church, right? Not any hard facts proving that the church was not built on top of an old gate house?

A large cavity that shows on GPR reading could display an old cellar.

Or both theories could prove right - if indeed an old gate house - there could have been a chapel in one of the "tower" structures making up the gate house (and therefore tombs under it).

I am not really sure here - does it say in any source that the "Tomb of the Seigneurs" is specifically under the MM church?


I`m just the messenger 8) http://renneslechateau-fr.com/rennes-chateau-rdv/divers-eglises-les-fouilles-nostradamus-t115-795.html Scroll down, the death certificate is there, along with a legible translation in French. You may need a translator for English.


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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015 5:57 pm 
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Crimson_Ghost wrote:
I`m just the messenger 8) http://renneslechateau-fr.com/rennes-chateau-rdv/divers-eglises-les-fouilles-nostradamus-t115-795.html Scroll down, the death certificate is there, along with a legible translation in French. You may need a translator for English.


No problem :lol:
I am just trying to make it fit. Guess I'll just have to combat my way through all that French.

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015 6:06 pm 
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Barbarian Storm wrote:
Crimson_Ghost wrote:
I`m just the messenger 8) http://renneslechateau-fr.com/rennes-chateau-rdv/divers-eglises-les-fouilles-nostradamus-t115-795.html Scroll down, the death certificate is there, along with a legible translation in French. You may need a translator for English.


No problem :lol:
I am just trying to make it fit. Guess I'll just have to combat my way through all that French.


I try, CG, I try ... you know I am struggling with my french. Does it mention the St Mary Magdalene church anywhere there?

And besides - I am thinking of a crypt(and a church) predating the Chateau d'Hautpoul by hundreds of years.

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015 6:31 pm 
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I am not sure, that the first fortress or better the first tower had need for a church.

The 1st extension of the old tower are walls and a doorhouse and a central building we call a "Pallas", a kind of a keep or donjon, looking like a church without tower.

The basements of the pallas or the basements of the tower can be used later on as a crypt under a new raised church. The church was build, also by using the old walls of the pallas for the longhouse or the old tower as the chorus.

In anchient times, it was like today. They use the old structures (basements, walls, bows and pilar) in the new building. That is cheap !

Hans

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015 7:04 pm 
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Barbarian Storm wrote:
Might be a thought stretched too far, but it would be interesting know if Sauniere has "hightlighted" any other features on the domaine, features that could - perhaps - be linked to an older castle and a lost time (and to the mythic Rhedae that Sauniere rightly or wrongly thought to be here).


Well, one of the question is: why the hell built Saunière the Tour Magdala and the Belvédère and the Orangerie that look all together much more like a fortress than anything else.


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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015 7:35 pm 
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fmh999 wrote:
Barbarian Storm wrote:
Might be a thought stretched too far, but it would be interesting know if Sauniere has "hightlighted" any other features on the domaine, features that could - perhaps - be linked to an older castle and a lost time (and to the mythic Rhedae that Sauniere rightly or wrongly thought to be here).


Well, one of the question is: why the hell built Saunière the Tour Magdala and the Belvédère and the Orangerie that look all together much more like a fortress than anything else.


One guess is that he was inspired by what Eugene Viollet-le-Duc had been doing some years before in Carcassonne.

In Saunieres case he was rebuilding a romantic version of what he thought was ancient Rhedae.(in a mini format)
And he probably knew where the fortress was located.
He told us on the postcards.

And it's ironic but possible as well that Saunieres building projects destroyed traces of what he was trying to show us with his buildings.

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015 7:44 pm 
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Quote:
He told us on the postcards.


maybe you need to look at them again.


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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015 7:51 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
Quote:
He told us on the postcards.


maybe you need to look at them again.


Been doing that all weekend.

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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2015 6:04 am 
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fmh999 wrote:
Well, one of the question is: why the hell built Saunière the Tour Magdala and the Belvédère and the Orangerie that look all together much more like a fortress than anything else.


Plantard gave us the answer :

The Magdala tower and the Orangerie and the wall of the Belvedere have the same function as the Delmas crosses.

The Delmas crosses in RlB are containing the information, where the entrance to the temple can be found.
The Magdala,Orangerie and wall are containing the information where the great mystery can be found.(Not the roman temple)

The Magdala tower is a symbol of the Rhedae donjon. The Orangerie is the same donjon, but as it looks in Saunieres times. The basements are still there, but the structures above the ground are missing and not visible any more (The walls are made of glas).
The door way (the wall) shows the way where to go.

regards Hans

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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2015 3:33 pm 
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fmh999 wrote:
Barbarian Storm wrote:
Might be a thought stretched too far, but it would be interesting know if Sauniere has "hightlighted" any other features on the domaine, features that could - perhaps - be linked to an older castle and a lost time (and to the mythic Rhedae that Sauniere rightly or wrongly thought to be here).


Well, one of the question is: why the hell built Saunière the Tour Magdala and the Belvédère and the Orangerie that look all together much more like a fortress than anything else.


I think it has to do with the game of Chess and the black and white chess board
The rook or tour
The term "castling" then makes sense because the king uses a tower to castle himself into protection
The Euler's 8x8 magic square.
Leonard Euler, a very important mathematician, constructed a magic square of order 8, in this square if you put a knight in the 1 you can touch all 64 boxes in consecutive numerical order.

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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2015 3:52 pm 
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Why the great elevation difference between the Villa Garden and the lot above?

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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2015 4:04 pm 
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I told you.

Hans

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