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PostPosted: 27 Sep 2012 7:34 pm 
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Everyone knows the story about the counterfeit gold coins minted in or around the castle of Bezu, BUT are these accounts that vary depending on which article you read based on true events?

Most accounts state that documents appertaining to these events are held in the French National archives or that the events are fully documented.

A brief summery from various sources …….

In 1307 Othon d`Aure (sometimes Otto Aure) vassal of the count of Foix is accused of counterfeiting money by agents of the French king Charles V.

In 1344 members of the de Voisin family are also accused of counterfeiting gold coins, the wife of Jaques de Voisin Brunissende de Gureyo (sometimes de Turey), the nephew of pope Benedict XII Guillaume de Cathala (sometimes Guilhem Catalini or Catala), Pierre de Palajan Lord of Coustaussa, Agnes Mayssene de Caderone and Dame Francoise Lady of Niort.

In the second case the counterfeiters were accused of the murder of the seneschal of Paris Guillaume de Servin who was sent to investigate their activities. They were sentenced to prison and their goods were forfeited. On hearing of the plight of his family members etc Jacques de Voisin who was fighting in Flanders (?) went to see the Pope for his intervention. Eventually the new pope Clement VI obtained a pardon for them from the King of France, some accounts say it was in the same year, some accounts state it was a few years later!

The act of remission for this case is apparently held in the French national archives so my question is this……Has anyone seen or read this or any other official documentation that can confirm the above events did actually occur?

A rough google translation from the link below re a study by Madamme Blandine sire Allabert…..

http://nouveauroidefrance.forumactif.or ... noel-corbu

But then study Blandine Sire gets really interesting for researchers to Rennes with the first case of counterfeit currency Bézu which accredits the work of Father Mazières on the arrival of the Templars Roussillon Bézu. Indeed twice in the fourteenth century, the Knights of Rennes are condemned for making counterfeit money and crime castrum of Albedun:

"In 1307, a letter addressed to Philippe le Bel seneschal of Toulouse reported a complaint of Comte de Foix (97). The latter's vassal, Otto Aure, is accused of the crime of counterfeiting the castrum of Bézu and other crimes. He abused his right to justice by hanging several men and women of the said barony. "

Finally, the study Blandine Sire relates following the second case of counterfeit currency Bézu, which took place forty years later:

"The most important act for the year 1344. This is a letter of forgiveness to the Duke of Normandy William Cathala, nephew of Pope Benedict XII, Brunissende of Gureyo, wife of Jacques Neighbors, stepmother said Cathala, Pierre de Palaja Coustaussa Agnes Moyssene of Caderone (100). Note that the lord of Albedun, Jacques Neighbors, is not to ban the accused. All these people in the southern nobility had previously been charged with a crime of counterfeit money and killing a man, Guillaume Servini. This is the second time in less than 50 years of the knights were accused of the crime of counterfeiting the castrum of Albedun. "

The letter of remission -

3 June 1344 - 2 Case Albedun false coin -

Letters of remission of Jean de Normandie for the nephew of Pope Benedict XII.

Confirmed by Philippe VI, Arras, in June 1347.

also....and perhaps i have gotten lost in translation :lol: but why is the letter to the Duke of Normandy?
Could there be a conflation with the name Bezu?

Bézu-la-Forêt in Haute- Normandie/Normandy
Bezu-Saint-Eloi in Haute-Normandie/Normandy


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PostPosted: 27 Sep 2012 11:50 pm 
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tingra wrote:
also....and perhaps i have gotten lost in translation :lol: but why is the letter to the Duke of Normandy?
Could there be a conflation with the name Bezu?

Bézu-la-Forêt in Haute- Normandie/Normandy
Bezu-Saint-Eloi in Haute-Normandie/Normandy


The future Jean II of France was styled Duke of Normandy during his father's reign. As Philippe VI was at war during this period his son was most likely acting as proxy.

TCP


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2012 2:16 pm 
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Not quite sure about calling it "counterfeiting" of currency.... it actually might have been the "unauthorised minting of coins", coins that didn't skimp on the gold content .... because interestingly enough after analysis the gold content was deemed to have been way superior to the currency being produced by the Royal mints.
Certain endroits in the area of Bézu had full-proof cover for this sort of carry-on and were ripe for the smelting of and the manufacturing of pure gold coins.


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2012 2:49 pm 
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High King

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Sheila wrote:
because interestingly enough after analysis the gold content was deemed to have been way superior to the currency being produced by the Royal mints.


Is this true though? or just another myth!.........where is it documented in the French archives?


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2012 3:09 pm 
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hmm...this is not my subject, i suppose we would need to read Mme Blandine Sire's historical study "Albedun et son histoire 
XIe - XVe Siècles"....she apparently went through the archives with a fine toothed comb.


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2012 3:46 pm 
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That's just it though, whenever I come across anything about it it's always referenced back to her. I would like to know exactly which archives she took the information from, does she reference her work?


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2012 4:24 pm 
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....Blandine Allabert-Sire, licenciée ès Lettres et maîtrise d’histoire, professeur des écoles

Bulletin de la Société d'Études Scientifiques de l'Aude, Tome XCVII, 1997 - Albedun et son histoire XIe-XVe siècles par Blandine Sire, page 73 à 87


Hmmm....or is it just flim-flam.


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2012 7:15 pm 
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Precisely.


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2012 7:26 pm 
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i assume this question pertains to a book you are reading ...if so which one ?


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2012 7:46 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
i assume this question pertains to a book you are reading ...if so which one ?


No book, I was reading through some old files and It's always struck me as odd that every account states the events as a documented fact without any proper reference to the documentation other than in the French National archives. It would make sense to say which particular archives in the reference but it never does.


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2012 7:52 pm 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archives_n ... es_(France)


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2012 8:04 pm 
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:lol: Funnily enough I have just started to re read Masters of Deception and come across it again, Guy Patton states the events are fully documented in the French National archives :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2012 5:08 pm 
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Just a by the way and neither here nor there, but.....if you say the name Othon d`Aure out loud phonetically, viz ... Au Ton d'Or ... which is Autant d'Or ...it means "as much Gold as you want" or "That much Gold !"


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2012 6:03 pm 
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Guy Patton - Jonothon Boulter - keeping the ball rolling.


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2012 7:05 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
Guy Patton - Jonothon Boulter - keeping the ball rolling.


:lol: :lol: didn't Guy leave the Rennes Group because of Boulter et al?


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2012 7:08 pm 
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eh...no.


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2012 7:13 pm 
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Image


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2012 10:50 pm 
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High King
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tingra wrote:
Sheila wrote:
Guy Patton - Jonothon Boulter - keeping the ball rolling.


:lol: :lol: didn't Guy leave the Rennes Group because of Boulter et al?


Any more than Roger left the Forum due to Boulter et al!

TD :wink:

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" The evidence must be interrogated by minds trained in a discipline of attentive disbelief"
E. P. Thompson, 'The Poverty of Theory


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2012 11:26 pm 
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I might have known you would rear your ugly head when your mates name was mentioned :lol: :lol:

I know why Roger left and took all his posts with him, you don't so stop pretending otherwise :wink:


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PostPosted: 30 Sep 2012 12:43 am 
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tingra wrote:
I might have known you would rear your ugly head when your mates name was mentioned :lol: :lol:

I know why Roger left and took all his posts with him, you don't so stop pretending otherwise :wink:


My Mate ? :shock:
I don't even know his name, why would I count him as a mate ?
You, on the other are doing the very best to put a brave face on things.
Have you ever seen 'The Dresser'? You remind me so much of Norman! :lol:

I don't suppose anyone much cares why 'Roger' actually left, the reality is that he scuttled off
with his tail between his legs because folks finally stopped buying what he was selling.
Folk will make their own minds up as to why he left but it wasn't in triumph was it ? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Despite your breathless claims recently he didn't leave because of any neo-right grouping in the RG or elsewhere.

You may desperately want to think you're 'special' because you claim to 'know why he left'. Frankly Pet, who cares?
He slunk off, taking his toys with him .....period.
You're the only one who pays the necessary obeisance like some faithful hound waiting patiently for her Masters return.
BTW, Did you ever walk the 'German Shepherd' ? :lol:
BTW #2 Thanks for confirming he took his posts with him and it wasn't the Mods work! :lol:
TD :wink:

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" The evidence must be interrogated by minds trained in a discipline of attentive disbelief"
E. P. Thompson, 'The Poverty of Theory


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PostPosted: 30 Sep 2012 7:57 am 
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Oh dear, I seem to have rattled your cage :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thomas D. wrote:
My Mate ? :shock:
I don't even know his name, why would I count him as a mate ?


Of course you know him Stephen and it WAS you that brought him to my attention in a pm :wink:
here is a small reminder.....i can post the whole pm if you would prefer :shock:

Thomas D. wrote:

He was rather more interested in the presence of John Boulter...........


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PostPosted: 30 Sep 2012 8:11 am 
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High King

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Thomas D. wrote:
Despite your breathless claims recently he didn't leave because of any neo-right grouping in the RG or elsewhere.


i never claimed he did, that is your assumption, a spin you keep repeating to fit your own agenda :wink:


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PostPosted: 30 Sep 2012 8:57 am 
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High King
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tingra wrote:
Oh dear, I seem to have rattled your cage :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thomas D. wrote:
My Mate ? :shock:
I don't even know his name, why would I count him as a mate ?


Of course you know him Stephen and it WAS you that brought him to my attention in a pm :wink:
here is a small reminder.....i can post the whole pm if you would prefer :shock:

Thomas D. wrote:

He was rather more interested in the presence of John Boulter...........



Has there just been a drop in IQ on Tyneside or is it the nicotine finally taking effect?
Just because I mention someone's name does that mean I KNOW him?
I seem to recall mentioning the delightful 'Stella Maris', are you suggesting I KNOW her too?
I also alluded to the presence of IBJ and Christine, as you may recall she took the trouble to confim on the Forum
that I hadn't spoken to them.
My reference quoted above was directed at the former poster who operated under the soubriquet 'Roger' not Mr Boulter.

As to whether you choose to make public any private messages, thats entirely up to you, Pet! :lol:
All it will prove to the Forum at large is that you're thoroughly untrustworthy ! :lol:
Why anyone would want to ruin their own reputation so completely is a mystery perhaps folk might conclude that
you've lost the argument and have no option left.
Maybe if a lack of respect for private conversations became the norm on the Forum who knows what might appear
from others, who would have considerably more to be embarassed about! :wink:
Perhaps that is your intention after all? :shock:

However, Wellington's words to Stockdale come to mind....................................... :wink:

TD :wink:

_________________
" The evidence must be interrogated by minds trained in a discipline of attentive disbelief"
E. P. Thompson, 'The Poverty of Theory


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PostPosted: 30 Sep 2012 9:49 am 
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High King

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:lol:
Thomas D. wrote:
Has there just been a drop in IQ on Tyneside or is it the nicotine finally taking effect?
Just because I mention someone's name does that mean I KNOW him?
I seem to recall mentioning the delightful 'Stella Maris', are you suggesting I KNOW her too?
I also alluded to the presence of IBJ and Christine, as you may recall she took the trouble to confim on the Forum
that I hadn't spoken to them.
My reference quoted above was directed at the former poster who operated under the soubriquet 'Roger' not Mr Boulter.

As to whether you choose to make public any private messages, thats entirely up to you, Pet! :lol:
All it will prove to the Forum at large is that you're thoroughly untrustworthy ! :lol:
Why anyone would want to ruin their own reputation so completely is a mystery perhaps folk might conclude that
you've lost the argument and have no option left.
Maybe if a lack of respect for private conversations became the norm on the Forum who knows what might appear
from others, who would have considerably more to be embarassed about! :wink:
Perhaps that is your intention after all? :shock:

However, Wellington's words to Stockdale come to mind....................................... :wink:

TD :wink:


Nice swerve but no banana Brother Stephen, its there for everyone to see :lol: :lol:

can you confirm you are not members of the same lodge?

Its understandable that you would want to distance yourself though, who in their right mind would want to be involved in this kind of thing :shock:

If you go down to the woods today, your in for a big surprise,
If you go down to the woods today, you’ll never believe your eyes.

http://wodensfolk.org.uk/

anyway, back to the thread :roll:
Do you know of any references about the above gold other than the ones mentioned?


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PostPosted: 30 Sep 2012 10:57 am 
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High King
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tingra wrote:
:lol:
Thomas D. wrote:
Has there just been a drop in IQ on Tyneside or is it the nicotine finally taking effect?
Just because I mention someone's name does that mean I KNOW him?
I seem to recall mentioning the delightful 'Stella Maris', are you suggesting I KNOW her too?
I also alluded to the presence of IBJ and Christine, as you may recall she took the trouble to confim on the Forum
that I hadn't spoken to them.
My reference quoted above was directed at the former poster who operated under the soubriquet 'Roger' not Mr Boulter.

As to whether you choose to make public any private messages, thats entirely up to you, Pet! :lol:
All it will prove to the Forum at large is that you're thoroughly untrustworthy ! :lol:
Why anyone would want to ruin their own reputation so completely is a mystery perhaps folk might conclude that
you've lost the argument and have no option left.
Maybe if a lack of respect for private conversations became the norm on the Forum who knows what might appear
from others, who would have considerably more to be embarassed about! :wink:
Perhaps that is your intention after all? :shock:

However, Wellington's words to Stockdale come to mind....................................... :wink:

TD :wink:


Nice swerve but no banana Brother Stephen, its there for everyone to see :lol: :lol:

can you confirm you are not members of the same lodge?

Its understandable that you would want to distance yourself though, who in their right mind would want to be involved in this kind of thing :shock:

If you go down to the woods today, your in for a big surprise,
If you go down to the woods today, you’ll never believe your eyes.

http://wodensfolk.org.uk/



I'm glad that you've sobered up but the mere fact that, given the extremity of your position, you were prepared to
humilitate yourself in his name was most instructive! Why would you want to belittle yourself in this way? :shock:
In the past you've shared that you work in the NHS, for the sake of your employers and patients I would hope that you're rather
more trustworthy in your professional life! :shock:

In the interests of clarity I'm delighted to confirm that I have no direct personal, social or political connections with Mr Boulter,
Stella Maris or the author known as IBJ.

As you're keen on personal statements can you confirm how many times you've met the former contributor known as 'Roger'?
Has he still maintained his presence on the private Forum despite slinking out of the public Forum?

TD :wink:

_________________
" The evidence must be interrogated by minds trained in a discipline of attentive disbelief"
E. P. Thompson, 'The Poverty of Theory


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