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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2016 7:13 am 
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lovuian wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton#/media/File:St._Charles%27s_Church,_Austria,_Vienna_-_Gold_piece_high_above_the_altar_symbolizing_Yahweh.jpg

The large round glass window high above the main altar with the Hebrew Tetragrammaton/Yahweh symbolizes God's omnipotence and simultaneously, through its warm yellow tone, God's love

Karlskirche (St. Charles's Church) is a baroque church located on the south side of Karlsplatz in Vienna, Austria
The church is cared for by a religious order, the Knights of the Cross with the Red Star,
The Order, as a distinct entity, can trace its origin to 1233 in a fraternity of Franciscan tertiaries attached to a hospital at Prague under a community of Poor Clares, established by St. Agnes of Bohemia, making it the only male religious Order founded by a woman and the only Bohemian-founded Order. It was inspired by the nursing military Orders, such as the Knights Hospitaller.[2] In 1235 the hospital was richly endowed by Agnes, then still Queen of Bohemia, with property formerly belonging to the Teutonic Knights, a gift confirmed by Pope Gregory IX (18 May 1236), who stipulated that the revenues should be divided with the Poor Clare monastery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_o ... e_Red_Star


lov wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoration ... H_Goya.jpg

Francisco de Goya y Lucientes. "The name of God" (Tetragrammaton in triangle), fresco detail from LA GLORIA or LA ADORACIÓN DEL NOMBRE DE DIOS (1772). Basílica del Pilar, Zaragoza (Spain).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoration ... ngeles.jpg
created
31 December 1771
Against a background of clouds groups of angels contemplate the name of God, inscribed on an equilateral triangle
To either side are arranged groups of angels directing the attention to the central scene, dominated by the symbol of the Christianity Trinity and Godhead: an equilateral triangle inscribed with the Tetragrammaton in Hebrew. Because the various groups are situated at different altitudes, the final impression is rather static, dominated by a composition in the shape of an "X", the result of Goya's intention to have the lines of force coming in from the corners and crossing in the centre.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoration ... ame_of_God

The Cathedral-Basilica of Our Lady of the Pillar (Spanish: Catedral-Basílica de Nuestra Señora del Pilar) is a Roman Catholic church in the city of Zaragoza, Aragon, Spain. The Basilica venerates Blessed Virgin Mary, under her title Our Lady of the Pillar[1] praised as Mother of the Hispanic Peoples by Pope John Paul II.[2] It is reputed to be the first church dedicated to Mary in history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral ... the_Pillar

The architecture is of Baroque style, and the present building was predominantly built between 1681 and 1872.
During the Spanish Civil War of 1936–1939 three bombs were dropped on the church but none of them exploded.[3] Two of them are still on show in the Basilica.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral ... ragoza.jpg


Not quite sure what you're trying to show with those posts lov. They seem to confirm what I was saying to you - that the triangle and tetragrammaton are not that unusual in a Christian environment. So what then makes the same symbol so special on Sauniere's vestments? Isn't it entirely likely that he bought his priestly attire from a specialist supplier and that loads of other priests bought the same stuff? And isn't it likely that all of them took the symbol to simply reflect the Trinity? G_d in three aspects?

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2016 9:14 pm 
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Not quite sure what you're trying to show with those posts lov. They seem to confirm what I was saying to you - that the triangle and tetragrammaton are not that unusual in a Christian environment. So what then makes the same symbol so special on Sauniere's vestments? Isn't it entirely likely that he bought his priestly attire from a specialist supplier and that loads of other priests bought the same stuff? And isn't it likely that all of them took the symbol to simply reflect the Trinity? G_d in three aspects?


Do you have the catalogue he picked that out of Jlockest?....but even if it was a catalogue with many choices in it

He bought or had made and wore the Golden Triangle with the Tetragrammaton and wore it as his vestment at mass which he considered sacred
He chose it because it was an important sacred symbol.

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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2016 7:15 am 
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lovuian wrote:
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Not quite sure what you're trying to show with those posts lov. They seem to confirm what I was saying to you - that the triangle and tetragrammaton are not that unusual in a Christian environment. So what then makes the same symbol so special on Sauniere's vestments? Isn't it entirely likely that he bought his priestly attire from a specialist supplier and that loads of other priests bought the same stuff? And isn't it likely that all of them took the symbol to simply reflect the Trinity? G_d in three aspects?


Do you have the catalogue he picked that out of Jlockest?....but even if it was a catalogue with many choices in it

He bought or had made and wore the Golden Triangle with the Tetragrammaton and wore it as his vestment at mass which he considered sacred
He chose it because it was an important sacred symbol.


Lov,
No, I don't have a catalogue that Sauniere used. I have no idea where he bought his vestments from. What I think has been shown though, is that the symbol of the tetragrammaton inside a triangle is/was not an uncommon symbol used within Christianity to apparently refer to the Trinity.
You had said earlier:
lov wrote:
I totally understand where you all are coming from

Geometry Chemistry Astronomy ...to us in the year 2016 are sciences ....not "sacred" to many people. Other people do still hold sacred geometry as important such as Freemasonry uses the compass of the "Great Architect" symbolism to this day ....they kept their teachings for only members. It was a secret organization. But I have noticed more openness of their teachings now to the public.


but we are looking back in history with a Abbe (priest) and a Catholic Church (spiritual religious organization)
wearing vestments to perform a "sacred ritual" to him and his parishioners

In the past the Roman Catholic Church were the teachers and controllers of education and only allowed those deemed worthy taught
I just visited Paris doing research and I visited churches that date back to the 12th century and 13th centuries....the time of Saint Louis and his mother Blanche Castile and Eleanor of Aquitaine.... the time of Saint Louis Bible ....where the creator of the universe used a compass....where the masons had this "sacred knowledge" to build these grand cathedrals. It looks like the monarchies knew about geometry and astronomy as well as other sciences. Their were other religions who the monarchies came in contact who revered "sacred geometry" also 8) The Crusades brought with it a mixing of faiths and cultures

and France was in the middle of it


So, I asked why you think that the symbol of the triangle on Sauniere's vestments was so special? Why? You still seem to link it all under 'sacred geometry' (which again is what? - as you say that you understand that ALL geometry was sacred) - is that what you're doing above?

Why is the symbol on Sauniere's vestments anything other than a symbol to represent the Trinity?

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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2016 7:59 am 
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Do you have the catalogue he picked that out of Jlockest?


:lol:
do you? After all you're the one making claims that it was something special


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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2016 7:47 pm 
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Davinho wrote:
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Do you have the catalogue he picked that out of Jlockest?


:lol:
do you? After all you're the one making claims that it was something special


I'm pointing out that a priest Abbe Sauniere wore the symbolic Golden Triangle Tetragrammaton on his "sacred" Vestments for mass

The vestments are at the Rennes Museum are they not? They must think it's important. Nic brought back a picture from his visit. Are the vestments not there? If so then I misunderstood Nic's picture
I don't know where Sauniere got it and you don't either but we know from the museum that it was his "sacred" vestments in his possession
I can understand why the word "sacred" is a troubling phrase because it's about religion and Abbe Sauniere was a priest
taught in the seminary about the vestments and the sacredness of mass. We are taking about a priest and a church. And yes some people believe in "sacred or great geometry" and it appears Sauniere understood the symbolism of what he was wearing since it was the sacred vestments he wore at church in public and chose unless the museum is incorrect for showing them. If they are not there then I will forget the point.

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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2016 10:10 pm 
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Yes indeed Lov, the vestments are ( or were last time I went ), in the museum at RLC. How unusual they are for the period I don't know. Certainly the Tetragrammaton is used for other religious items and other priests vestments. This possibly was quite popular, but I don't know as I haven't looked into it in detail. As far as the symbolism being "sacred", I presume that is the case.
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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2016 5:46 am 
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lovuian wrote:
Davinho wrote:
Quote:
Do you have the catalogue he picked that out of Jlockest?


:lol:
do you? After all you're the one making claims that it was something special


I'm pointing out that a priest Abbe Sauniere wore the symbolic Golden Triangle Tetragrammaton on his "sacred" Vestments for mass

The vestments are at the Rennes Museum are they not? They must think it's important. Nic brought back a picture from his visit. Are the vestments not there? If so then I misunderstood Nic's picture
I don't know where Sauniere got it and you don't either but we know from the museum that it was his "sacred" vestments in his possession
I can understand why the word "sacred" is a troubling phrase because it's about religion and Abbe Sauniere was a priest
taught in the seminary about the vestments and the sacredness of mass. We are taking about a priest and a church. And yes some people believe in "sacred or great geometry" and it appears Sauniere understood the symbolism of what he was wearing since it was the sacred vestments he wore at church in public and chose unless the museum is incorrect for showing them. If they are not there then I will forget the point.


'Sacred' is not a troubling phrase to me Lov (if it's a phrase at all). I understand that things are held as being sacred by people. That's fine.
I think you fail to understand what is being said to you, so then trot out some stuff that then doesn't quite make sense in the confines of what's being discussed.

I thought we were talking 'sacred geometry' - not just 'sacred'? I think most people follow what sacred means. The issue, for me, is in the term 'sacred geometry'.
You brought up Sauniere's vestments, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) to show that Sauniere held the triangle and Tetrgrammaton as a symbol of 'sacred geometry'.
OK - so I then tried to show you that the sacredness in the symbol, which appears to be quite common in both Church buildings and vestments, seems to be in it representing the Trinity as aspects of the one G_d - not in it being 'sacred geometry'.
Secondly, I thought I had already shown that ALL geometry was seen as being sacred - as being a way to preceive order in the chaos and as then a facet olf G_d. I thought you'd said that you now understood that. But it seems you didn't understand it - or else I don't think you would have posted your reply above.

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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2016 7:05 am 
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and this is for BS and Rain ....if you look at the golden background of the illuminations in the Saint Louis Bible ...you will see golden squares all interconnected with four dots in the square
https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/ ... -of-france

Thank-you lovuian, it's beautiful and quite unique.

lovuian wrote:
Davinho wrote:
Quote:
Do you have the catalogue he picked that out of Jlockest?


:lol:
do you? After all you're the one making claims that it was something special


I'm pointing out that a priest Abbe Sauniere wore the symbolic Golden Triangle Tetragrammaton on his "sacred" Vestments for mass

The vestments are at the Rennes Museum are they not? They must think it's important. Nic brought back a picture from his visit. Are the vestments not there? If so then I misunderstood Nic's picture
I don't know where Sauniere got it and you don't either but we know from the museum that it was his "sacred" vestments in his possession
I can understand why the word "sacred" is a troubling phrase because it's about religion and Abbe Sauniere was a priest
taught in the seminary about the vestments and the sacredness of mass. We are taking about a priest and a church. And yes some people believe in "sacred or great geometry" and it appears Sauniere understood the symbolism of what he was wearing since it was the sacred vestments he wore at church in public and chose unless the museum is incorrect for showing them. If they are not there then I will forget the point.


Sacred Geometry and Golden Triangle "Tetragrammaton" is important, Louvian. Most people if they work it out will need the information to look over when they work it out, the operative word being "if".
The receipts books for the "Mass" that Sauniere presented to the Church were obviously encoded. It's my belief that nobody will ever publish the decoding and the same goes for the Postcards. So I think the vestments are an important aspect to show Sauniere was aware of the Churches role in these ancient forms of 'Sacred-study.'


Quote:
The Tetragrammaton in Kabbalah
In the Kabbalah all creation is [established] by means of the letters of the Tetragrammaton in various combinations. This name contains all the Sefirot and has innumerable combinations, each representing an aspect of divine manifestation. These, contrary to Maimonides, do have magical power and those who know how to draw on this power can work miracles hence the name Baal Shem ("Master of the Name") for this practitioner of "white" magic.

In the Lurianic Kabbalah there are four ways of spelling out the letters of the Tetragrammaton, which yield four different totals–72, 63, 45, and 52–each representing an aspect of God in His relation to the world in which He is manifested. Unlike for Maimonides, the Tetragrammaton does not represent God’s essence but His manifestations in the Sefirot. God’s essence is denoted by the term En Sof.

In another Kabbalistic understanding the Tetragrammaton represents the Sefirah Tiferet, the male principle on high, while Adonai represents Malkhut, the Shekhinah, the female principle. The combination of these two in the mind of the Kabbalist assists in the unification of these principles on high and promotes harmony in the Sefirotic realm. For this reason Kabbalistic prayer books depict the divine name in the form of an interweaving of the letters of the Tetragrammaton with those of Adonai.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Premier Canevas de grands triangles de reference de la future de cassini, 1744.

Image

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Last edited by rain on 24 Aug 2016 7:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2016 7:09 am 
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The vestments are at the Rennes Museum are they not?


which is a tourist attraction. If there was anything special about them other than they belonged to Sauniere then the museum would have been sure to have highlighted that, anything to add to the mystery brings the punters in. You're just guessing about this because you feel it somehow fits your narrative but like the rest of us have no idea if they were anything special to Sauniere. The difference you are making a claim that they are more special with nothing to back it up other than your own tenuous connections.


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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2016 7:22 am 
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rain wrote:
...
Sacred Geometry and Golden Triangle "Tetragrammaton" is important, Louvian. Most people if they work it out will need the information to look over when they work it out, the operative word being "if".
The receipts books for the "Mass" that Sauniere presented to the Church were obviously encoded. It's my belief that nobody will ever publish the decoding and the same goes for the Postcards. So I think the vestments are an important aspect to show Sauniere was aware of the Churches role in these ancient forms of 'Sacred-study.'
...


...and what is the difference between 'sacred geometry' and your average, bog standard, day-to-day geometry rain?......

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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2016 8:07 am 
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Davinho wrote:
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Actually some people have written about sacred geometry and crop circles


of course they have...there's plenty of gullible people around that lap up the most fanastical of explanantions rather than confront that more mundane. Henry Lincoln no longer does regular tours around RLC because people don't want to hear what he says, much of which is based around boring old historical facts. They'd much rather hear total bullcrap about the "Magdalena" spouted by airy, fairy "free spirits" who make 5 figure sums (per customer) for lying.


Awhile ago someone posted Henry Lincoln making an announcement about releasing his notes and revealing how the (they-the ancients?.) did something. I thought maybe it was to do with the process of an Arcadian agrarian society. Then other people started popping up around him, and he didn't seem to make any kind of major announcement or reveal.
I speculated that maybe he was encouraged to remain silent. I was wondering if anyone else thought it was strange? Did you notice anything Davinho, were you expecting any kind of reveal or did I miss it?
I recently just read that H.Lincoln remained fairly neutral politically after HBHG whereas the other two got involved with some questionable endeavours after HBHG. My opinion of him went up after reading that and I realized how hard it would have been to navigate those circumstances.

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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2016 9:14 am 
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I was wondering if anyone else thought it was strange? Did you notice anything Davinho, were you expecting any kind of reveal or did I miss it?


No, but I wasn't paying that much attention. I was told that he does very few tours now because the demand for his kind of slightly more down to earth opinions is not so great. He doesn't give people the answers they want to hear because he doesn't know himself and instead of stringing people along with made up bullshit he leaves it to them to come up with their own answers. It would seem that people now can't really be bothered to think for themselves though and would much rather be told what to think especially if it involves a load of airy, fairy mumbo-jumbo that fits in with the theory de jour of the potential disciple...yes they'll gladly pay 10 grand a pop for that shit


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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2016 12:21 pm 
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rain said;

Quote:
Awhile ago someone posted Henry Lincoln making an announcement about releasing his notes and revealing how the (they-the ancients?.) did something. I thought maybe it was to do with the process of an Arcadian agrarian society. Then other people started popping up around him, and he didn't seem to make any kind of major announcement or reveal.

When was that rain?

Do you remember this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v41BUfKafp8

Do you remember this thread?

http://forum.andrewgough.co.uk/viewtopi ... 16#p142516

And yes, Henry announced he was to do his archive. This is that announcement:

http://www.henrylincoln.co.uk/future.php

I’m yet to discover any archive. I'm yet to see any notes. Have you?

Has anybody?

Has the Rat got them, and that's his secret? (Unless you pay?).


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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2016 2:50 pm 
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Davinho wrote:
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The vestments are at the Rennes Museum are they not?


which is a tourist attraction. If there was anything special about them other than they belonged to Sauniere then the museum would have been sure to have highlighted that, anything to add to the mystery brings the punters in. You're just guessing about this because you feel it somehow fits your narrative but like the rest of us have no idea if they were anything special to Sauniere. The difference you are making a claim that they are more special with nothing to back it up other than your own tenuous connections.


Yes the Louvre is a tourist attraction but it does have some very special items some considered sacred to pagans long ago ...do we dismiss everything because it's a "tourist attraction"
What you're in denial about and I understand why is that we are talking about a priest and a church and his vestments. Your view is there is nothing here that is special but I'm telling you that a different viewer with a background in other religions would see something sacred and symbolic. The vestments are considered sacred to a priest. It's part of the mass one of the sacred functions and job of a priest of which Sauniere took serious. There are different vestments to choose from but Sauniere chose this one to wear. The Tetrgrammaton is sacred to many religions and it goes way back in time

the Meshe Stele at the Louvre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragram ... 010_01.jpg
The Mesha Stele bears the earliest known reference (840 BCE) to the Israelite God Yahweh.

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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2016 3:05 pm 
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jlockest wrote:
rain wrote:
...
Sacred Geometry and Golden Triangle "Tetragrammaton" is important, Louvian. Most people if they work it out will need the information to look over when they work it out, the operative word being "if".
The receipts books for the "Mass" that Sauniere presented to the Church were obviously encoded. It's my belief that nobody will ever publish the decoding and the same goes for the Postcards. So I think the vestments are an important aspect to show Sauniere was aware of the Churches role in these ancient forms of 'Sacred-study.'
...


...and what is the difference between 'sacred geometry' and your average, bog standard, day-to-day geometry rain?......



...did you have a way of explaining the difference rain....?

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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2016 3:12 pm 
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lovuian wrote:
Davinho wrote:
Quote:
The vestments are at the Rennes Museum are they not?


which is a tourist attraction. If there was anything special about them other than they belonged to Sauniere then the museum would have been sure to have highlighted that, anything to add to the mystery brings the punters in. You're just guessing about this because you feel it somehow fits your narrative but like the rest of us have no idea if they were anything special to Sauniere. The difference you are making a claim that they are more special with nothing to back it up other than your own tenuous connections.


Yes the Louvre is a tourist attraction but it does have some very special items some considered sacred to pagans long ago ...do we dismiss everything because it's a "tourist attraction"
What you're in denial about and I understand why is that we are talking about a priest and a church and his vestments. Your view is there is nothing here that is special but I'm telling you that a different viewer with a background in other religions would see something sacred and symbolic. The vestments are considered sacred to a priest. It's part of the mass one of the sacred functions and job of a priest of which Sauniere took serious. There are different vestments to choose from but Sauniere chose this one to wear. The Tetrgrammaton is sacred to many religions and it goes way back in time

the Meshe Stele at the Louvre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragram ... 010_01.jpg
The Mesha Stele bears the earliest known reference (840 BCE) to the Israelite God Yahweh.


I lov the way you ignore the questions lov.....
I think you again miss the point - if Sauniere 'bought' the vestments, then those vestments were made to be sold. OK so far? So if the manufacturer expected to sell vestments with that symbol into a Catholic environment, then that symbol already meant something to the people who were potential buyers - ok so far? The manufacturers would not make vestments with symbols that priests didn't like, because they wouldn't sell any. So unless that particular item of apparel was specifically designed by Sauniere, it was a purchase from a general supplier - and then presumably sold to loads of other priests. Mainly I would guess as they saw it as a symbol of the Trinity. Do you still follow?

So why is it so significant? Why is Sauniere thinking it symbolised the Trinity in any way odd?

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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2016 6:54 pm 
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No, I've answered the question but you don't get it
and you're emphasizing the Trinity but the Tetrgrammaton name is on there too funny how you ignored that and how do you know the vestment was bought in a catalogue..you don't...it could have been handmade and it looks to me like it was ...many priests had their vestments hand stitched
and the main point is Sauniere Wore it in Mass
Tetragrammaton
4 sacred Hebrew characters
Religiously observant Jews and those who follow conservative Jewish traditions do not pronounce יהוה, either aloud or to themselves in silence, nor do they read aloud transliterated forms such as Yahweh or Yahuveh....and for someone who writes G_d all the time....you are very aware of it's symbolism.....it's very sacred
so sacred they don't say the name
Even the Vatican has a say in how "Sacred it is"
Vatican Says No 'Yahweh' In Songs, Prayers At Catholic Masses
http://www.catholic.org/news/ae/music/s ... p?id=29022

The Vatican has reiterated a directive that the name of God revealed in the tetragrammaton YHWH is not to be pronounced in Catholic liturgy or in music. Catholics at worship should neither sing nor pronounce the name of God as "Yahweh," the Vatican has said, citing the authority of Jewish and Christian practice.

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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2016 11:56 pm 
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Davinho wrote:
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I was wondering if anyone else thought it was strange? Did you notice anything Davinho, were you expecting any kind of reveal or did I miss it?


No, but I wasn't paying that much attention. I was told that he does very few tours now because the demand for his kind of slightly more down to earth opinions is not so great. He doesn't give people the answers they want to hear because he doesn't know himself and instead of stringing people along with made up bullshit he leaves it to them to come up with their own answers. It would seem that people now can't really be bothered to think for themselves though and would much rather be told what to think especially if it involves a load of airy, fairy mumbo-jumbo that fits in with the theory de jour of the potential disciple...yes they'll gladly pay 10 grand a pop for that shit


I guess there's always a chance in the future he might share something.

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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2016 2:05 am 
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Christianity/Catholicism isn't the only religion in the world that practices sacred forms of study. This obviously includes Sacred Geometry, Geomancy, Architecture et al... but more respect and access to Masters within those religions is probably more prevalent. It also shouldn't cost anything but bare minimum administration costs for study of the truly dedicated.
The following is a classic example of how far sacred studies can travel not just spatially but through time.

I will simply remind people of the following definition of
Esoteric: intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.
So therefore we can infer Sacred Geometry is an Esoteric subject understood only by a small number of people with a specialized knowledge(Priests, Monks, Masters, Theologians) whereas geometry is understood by all with access to universal education and as I have posted, universal education has only been available the last 2 centuries in a truly universal sense.

Image

Image

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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2016 5:56 am 
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lovuian wrote:
No, I've answered the question but you don't get it
and you're emphasizing the Trinity but the Tetrgrammaton name is on there too funny how you ignored that and how do you know the vestment was bought in a catalogue..you don't...it could have been handmade and it looks to me like it was ...many priests had their vestments hand stitched
and the main point is Sauniere Wore it in Mass
Tetragrammaton
4 sacred Hebrew characters
Religiously observant Jews and those who follow conservative Jewish traditions do not pronounce יהוה, either aloud or to themselves in silence, nor do they read aloud transliterated forms such as Yahweh or Yahuveh....and for someone who writes G_d all the time....you are very aware of it's symbolism.....it's very sacred
so sacred they don't say the name
Even the Vatican has a say in how "Sacred it is"
Vatican Says No 'Yahweh' In Songs, Prayers At Catholic Masses
http://www.catholic.org/news/ae/music/s ... p?id=29022

The Vatican has reiterated a directive that the name of God revealed in the tetragrammaton YHWH is not to be pronounced in Catholic liturgy or in music. Catholics at worship should neither sing nor pronounce the name of God as "Yahweh," the Vatican has said, citing the authority of Jewish and Christian practice.


I didn't ignore the tetragrammaton at all Lov - that was in the explanation - see earlier posts where I said:
jl wrote:
But didn't the link I posted above show the symbolism of the golden triangle etc? And it was nothing to do with 'sacred' geometry? Isn't it more likely to be a representation of the Trinity - and with the 'name' of G_d in the middle - isn't that then simply showing that each element of the Trinity is in itself not independent but again just a facet of the one G_d?


So you have three sides of the triangle (tri - three - trinity), surrounding the name of G_d - so the three sides represent aspects (faces, facets) of the one G_d.

Doesn't that seem like a reasonable explanation of the symbolism? And it's nothing to do with 'sacred geometry'.

I have not said the symbol isn't sacred. Now there's a good place to use sacred - to describe the Tertagrammaton inside a triangle symbol. The name in the middle is sacred - and what the surrounding shape represents is sacred. And whenever that symbol is used, it represents something sacred.
Geometry isn't the same is it? Geometry is used in virtually everything - so when is Geometry sacred, and when is it profane?

As for the vestments being hand stitched - I think that again is a different issue. I didn't say that the vestments weren't hand stitched. I would hazard a guess that hand stitching in the 19th and early 20th century was still quite common.
The issue is whether the manufacturer designed the symbol or Sauniere had the vestments made to his specification. The symbol seems quite prevalent at a point in time - so I would guess that some manufacturer designed vestments carrying it - much the same as builders added it to buildings.

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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2016 5:58 am 
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rain wrote:
Christianity/Catholicism isn't the only religion in the world that practices sacred forms of study. This obviously includes Sacred Geometry, Geomancy, Architecture et al... but more respect and access to Masters within those religions is probably more prevalent. It also shouldn't cost anything but bare minimum administration costs for study of the truly dedicated.
The following is a classic example of how far sacred studies can travel not just spatially but through time.

I will simply remind people of the following definition of
Esoteric: intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.
So therefore we can infer Sacred Geometry is an Esoteric subject understood only by a small number of people with a specialized knowledge(Priests, Monks, Masters, Theologians) whereas geometry is understood by all with access to universal education and as I have posted, universal education has only been available the last 2 centuries in a truly universal sense.

Image

Image

Image


......so, what is the difference between geometry and sacred geometry rain?

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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2016 7:32 am 
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Lov - seems that your research into the vestments has been going on a while. From the 'Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions' thread (from page 1):
Nic - talking about the Tetragrammaton:
nic wrote:
Its symbolism is also not unusual for a Catholic priest and not specifically masonic ( please correct me if I'm wrong ).


lov wrote:
Thanks Nic for the explanation ...thats what I love here you keep me on my toes
kick out the collar keep the Sauniere Regalia
Gotcha
its the symbol I'm investigating...what a coincidence Sauniere used it

Yes Nic Catholic Priests did use the Tetragramaton on the vestments as evidence submitted Sauniere's Regalia
Yes Masons use this symbolism ....such as the Scottish Rite


Nic then went onto post some examples of its use:

nic wrote:
Hi Lov, the Tetragrammaton symbol represents God and the Holy Trinity. There are lots of examples of it's use within churches ( the picture from St Germain de Pres which you posted above being a good example ). Here is another :-

....image...

As far as it being portrayed on a chasuble or other vestment, priests can choose different religious decorations to match the liturgy. There are now modern companies who will accept personalised images to be sent and make the garments embroidered to specification.
Also vestments have changed in design "Complex decoration schemes were often used on chasubles of scapular form, especially the back, incorporating the image of the Christian cross or of a saint; and rich materials such as silk, cloth of gold or brocade were employed, especially in chasubles reserved for major celebrations.
In the twentieth century, there was a tendency to return to an earlier, more ample, form of the chasuble, sometimes called "Gothic", as distinguished from the "Roman" scapular form."
....images...
Nic


So I'm a bit lost, as it seems at that point you were trying to make some Masonic link, but were shown what the symbol meant and that it was not that uncommon. You even say yourself that you have loads of examples of its use. So why do you think it is special Lov? Why do you appear to reject the obvious symbolism of the name of G_d set in a three aspect figure?

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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2016 7:49 am 
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Quote:
Yes the Louvre is a tourist attraction but it does have some very special items some considered sacred to pagans long ago ...do we dismiss everything because it's a "tourist attraction"


oh dear. The Louvre is not dedicated to a single mystery is it?

Quote:
What you're in denial about and I understand why is that we are talking about a priest and a church and his vestments. Your view is there is nothing here that is special but I'm telling you that a different viewer with a background in other religions would see something sacred and symbolic. The vestments are considered sacred to a priest. It's part of the mass one of the sacred functions and job of a priest of which Sauniere took serious. There are different vestments to choose from but Sauniere chose this one to wear. The Tetrgrammaton is sacred to many religions and it goes way back in time


I'm not in denial at all, why would I be? All I see is someone making extremely tenuous connections without using anything other than their opinion and then claiming others are close minded because they don't agree with those connections. The title of the original post pretty much sums it up. You've taken Crop Circles and linked them to RLC. Does no one else find that utterly ridiculous?


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PostPosted: 26 Aug 2016 3:00 am 
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Davinho wrote:
Quote:
Yes the Louvre is a tourist attraction but it does have some very special items some considered sacred to pagans long ago ...do we dismiss everything because it's a "tourist attraction"


oh dear. The Louvre is not dedicated to a single mystery is it?

Quote:
What you're in denial about and I understand why is that we are talking about a priest and a church and his vestments. Your view is there is nothing here that is special but I'm telling you that a different viewer with a background in other religions would see something sacred and symbolic. The vestments are considered sacred to a priest. It's part of the mass one of the sacred functions and job of a priest of which Sauniere took serious. There are different vestments to choose from but Sauniere chose this one to wear. The Tetrgrammaton is sacred to many religions and it goes way back in time


I'm not in denial at all, why would I be? All I see is someone making extremely tenuous connections without using anything other than their opinion and then claiming others are close minded because they don't agree with those connections. The title of the original post pretty much sums it up. You've taken Crop Circles and linked them to RLC. Does no one else find that utterly ridiculous?


It's about "Sacred Geometry" or "Great Geometry or the "Great Geometrician"
Sauniere has the Tetragrammaton ....the Great Geometrician name within a golden triangle on his sacred vestments

Crop Circles are considered by some people forms of sacred geometry
Stonehenge and other megalithic structures all over the world use this form of geometry ....Newgrange etc... there are dolmens of which Abbe Boudet shows on his maps ....I know you find it ridiculous but many people are interested as you can tell by the views on this thread ....Ancients used sacred geometry ....perhaps Boudet and Sauniere knew this too which is reflected by the Golden triangle on Sauniere's vestments

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PostPosted: 26 Aug 2016 5:54 am 
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lovuian wrote:
......

It's about "Sacred Geometry" or "Great Geometry or the "Great Geometrician"
Sauniere has the Tetragrammaton ....the Great Geometrician name within a golden triangle on his sacred vestments

Crop Circles are considered by some people forms of sacred geometry
Stonehenge and other megalithic structures all over the world use this form of geometry ....Newgrange etc... there are dolmens of which Abbe Boudet shows on his maps ....I know you find it ridiculous but many people are interested as you can tell by the views on this thread ....Ancients used sacred geometry ....perhaps Boudet and Sauniere knew this too which is reflected by the Golden triangle on Sauniere's vestments


I'm never sure whether you're just being obtuse or you just don't understand.
Are you saying that Sauniere's vestments are to do with 'sacred geometry' because of G_d's name - and as G_d is called, in some circles the 'Great Architect' or 'Great Geometrician', then it follows that the symbol is about 'sacred geometry'? But don't you then have an issue - as G_d is also know as GAOTU - so surely it's all about 'sacred Architecture' - or doesn't that fit so nicely?
If so, aren't you just ignoring what has been pointed out to you, not only now, but also years ago? Ignoring that the obvious (and what appears to be accepted) meaning of the symbol is the unspeakable (as it is unknowable) name of G_d - ie the unknown faceted by the Trinity? Surely you can understand that, as to some people geometry was seen as a way of perceiving G_d, to others the Trinity was also. So the symbol shows the hidden mystery (denoted by an unspeakable name), surrounded by the three - the Trinity.

You can ignore the posts if you like Lov - but doesn't that show that it's you who is in denial? You singularly fail to address what has been pointed out to you - and what has been pointed out to you before.

So I ask again, why do you ignore the 'accepted' definition of the symbol - ie it being G_d as represented by the Trinity - and think that Sauniere's particular version of the symbol means something other than that? And if Sauniere's version of the symbol does not mean the Trinity - are you then saying that wherever/whenever that symbol is used, it means what YOU say it means rather than what is accepted by the people practising the religion?

Edited:
And as you keep using the term - maybe you can then provide a definition for the difference between geometry and 'sacred geometry'? If you can't provide a definition for the difference, then doesn't mean the two things are the same? A rose by any other name etc...?

Edited 2:
You said:
lov wrote:
Stonehenge and other megalithic structures all over the world use this form of geometry

What form of geometry is that Lov? How does it differ from any other form of geometry - and what other forms of geometry are there?

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Last edited by jlockest on 26 Aug 2016 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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